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[b]wjlmarsh wrote:[/b]
[quote][b]Barney wrote:[/b]
[quote]Your only new suggestion is 'evidence assessors' - which already exist in the CPS and police.

The independent jury's job is to assess this assessed evidence - and to form a view/verdict.

It's difficult to come up with an alternative judicial system, to one which works well - most of the time.

:huh:[/quote]

Here we are agreed.

I did suggest improvement in checks. It is clear when the police CPS and courts have a goal, political or otherwise they bypass their own rules and even encourage parliament to pass new laws that conflict with a fair trial like the jury can convict on one person's word only. I gather often a judge can give a fair hearing but watching the Appeals Court judges the approach points heavily to protecting their own. Also, the appeals court enforces the concept that 12 people off the street suddenly have an almost god like ability to sort the "evidence" and can tell who is lying and who is not. UK law is that an appeal can only be entertained on a point of law or new evidence not that the jury got it wrong as they are now infallible. Maybe an automatic right of appeal with a complete review and explanations then provided. I have what I call the 100 year rule that states if I was reading the details of a case one hundred years previous I would conclude exactly as the jury / judges did then even if on a rare occasion the person was innocent after all. Bottom line even though devising a better system is difficult it still needs to be done. With clear objectives what is to be achieved. Like all serious cases documented and supporting evidence clearly stated and why it is reliable and how it fits in overall. There are trials where the evidence is collected and put together well.[/quote]

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Topic History of: Louis Theroux, George Pell, Michael Jackson, JK
Max. showing the last 5 posts - (Last post first)

Author	Message
honey!oh sugar sugar.	holocaust21 wrote: I do not believe it is hard to fix our legal system, we simply need to acknowledge that sexual abuse is not such a bad thing and can be a wonderful thing. It's great if you are a 12 year old girl and an older predator grooms you, showers you with gifts (as part of the grooming process) and you then marry him and have children and live happily ever after. I can't see why anyone wouldn't be happy with that. I can only think of these scenarios as to why someone wouldn't be happy... 1. He grooms her and fucks her and then dumps her. 2. Unmarried or divorced older women can get jealous and angry of men being into younger women. "life isn't fair" "why can't we make men more like women?" 3. He's not attractive or she realises she could do better 1. and 2. can be solved by abolishing sexual liberation and reintroducing lifelong marriage (including child marriage) and social shaming of adultery. 3. can partly be solved by the same approach, women these days are taught too much that they can "have it all" and that they should settle for nothing less than a 10/10 male and this does result in women frequently divorcing men because they think they can do better, or they simply don't marry until later thinking they'll be able to get a better partner. But as they get older their SMV drops, so they actually end up having to settle for less, which they often won't do, so then they become old, lonely and single. And that's when they become entrenched feminists. You are entitled to your (rather bizarre) views, Holo, and I think you are very brave to air them, but I do feel this is all very unhelpful to Mr King.
holocaust21	I do not believe it is hard to fix our legal system, we simply need to acknowledge that sexual abuse is not such a bad thing and can be a wonderful thing. It's great if you are a 12 year old girl and an older predator grooms you, showers you with gifts (as part of the grooming process) and you then marry him and have children and live happily ever after. I can't see why anyone wouldn't be happy with that. I can only think of these scenarios as to why someone wouldn't be happy... 1. He grooms her and fucks her and then dumps her. 2. Unmarried or divorced older women can get jealous and angry of men being into younger women. "life isn't fair" "why can't we make men more like women?" 3. He's not attractive or she realises she could do better 1. and 2. can be solved by abolishing sexual liberation and reintroducing lifelong marriage (including child marriage) and social shaming of adultery. 3. can partly be solved by the same approach, women these days are taught too much that they can "have it all" and that they should settle for nothing less than a 10/10 male and this does result in women frequently divorcing men because they think they can do better, or they simply don't marry until later thinking they'll be able to get a better partner. But as they get older their SMV drops, so they actually end up having to settle for less, which they often won't do, so then they become old, lonely and single. And that's when they become entrenched feminists.
Barney	hedda wrote: I could be jumping to conclusions but I really think Barney has a hatred for the Catholic Church Hedda, you are jumping! My revulsion concerns any person (whether a member of any organisation, cult, religion etc. - or not) who sexually abuses children. This view is shared by the vast majority of the world population - including Pope Francis, who is working tirelessly to clean up the mess he inherited throughout his worldwide realm. As Francis admits, his church was not only slow to tackle the problem - but frequently covered it up.
JK2006	I think it's all mainly because perverts under the bed are so much more fun than innocent people (especially priests, vicars, sports coaches and DJ's). And so much better a story. And crucially - easier to cope with. Nuances are SO complicated. Even the suggestion that some young people want sex is dismissed. Or that some may even have initiated something. Or that some were just that bit older than claimed. So many complications; so many individual claims - some totally true; some totally invented; most somewhere in the middle.
hedda	wjlmarsh wrote: Barney wrote: wjlmarsh wrote: I suggest a thorough overall. The 100m used on the latest alleged abuse enquiry based on unreliable witness would of been better spend devising a better justice system for all. But, you have no idea how/what that better system should be. Only that the current one doesn't work! Somewhat like those who pontificate that democracy doesn't work. But are unable to think of an alternative... Barney you disappoint me in many ways. Even in the latest discussion I have pointed out where things went wrong with even an example where something was handled correctly. I think it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. You have a tendency to misdirect when your favorite topic is beginning to make a sieve look watertight, although in very broad terms has a little merit. I have to thank you in the sense when you started on this site highlighting all the accusations, court cases and so on then I looked up many of them with my initial criteria. "What is the evidence". That is NOT evidence that child abuse happens (recent sad UK case highlights the depth humans can go) but that the Catholic church covered up and to how prevalent. In general terms as time only permits a quick general glance real evidence is the thing that is missing in almost all the cases. Plenty have a story and why not the possible money is unbelievable. Another thing I learnt was how dedicated priests and nuns were generally. Also, not so clear as all the past and many rumours was the case of just covering up does not appear correct. I saw one comment that the rare time the problem really did occur the local priests listened and transferred the priest. Not sure if they monitored the priest as I have noticed historical past can be very murky as to the true reality. So what do we have for Australia George Pell convicted on no evidence. And now in France the priest was convicted by the judge because he heard what he considered a rumour in 2010 that the french prosecutor said there we no evidence. So France been a strongly catholic nation and what do we have!!!! I could be jumping to conclusions but I really think Barney has a hatred for the Catholic Church. I may be wrong and if I'm right..he may have bloody good reasons to and it's not my business and his right. But there is an incredible hatred for the Catholic Church in Australia. there always has been and it's been quite political...from Convict days and a Ruling Class of the British Establishment..C oF E and Anglican and a convict / working class of Irish, East End, Northern UK Catholics. The whole Ned Kelly matter grew out of working class Irish families being harassed and often falsely accused by British Anglican coppers. In the 20th Century apparently this was quite severe...and divided peoiple down political lines.. the generally ruling Conservative class ( Anglicans) and the working classes supporting a Labor Party..Catholic. (# although I was nicely surprised to discover the first Australian government in 1901 when the Colonies combined to be a Commonwealth was also the very first Socialist government in the world..beat the Russian revolution by 17 years ) Not going over the Pell case again.. I've no interest in the religious aspect but quite depressed by the incredibly vicious campaign conducted for years by those who should know better..established journalists etc I PRAY (how ironic) the verdict will be overturned by the Appeal Court will because if not..everyone is at peril of accusations even from those who deny it happened and via HEARSAY.