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Topic History of: Let's talk about Sweden...
Max. showing the last 5 posts - (Last post first)
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Wyot |
hedda wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
[quote]Nurse Hedda wrote:
I really have no idea why or how it all works..just place faith in 1000s of scientists and medical researchers and avoid the University of Youtube & Facebook 
The Universities of YT and FB I agree are best avoided.
I do at times feel, though, that people who argue as I do are misunderstood. We are not arrogantly claiming greater knowledge than scientists, or disagreeing with mainstream scientific opinion when completely unqualified to do so.
We leave this to conspiracy theorists.
We are drawing a distinction between science and public health policy. Science tells us how the virus transmits and how dangerous it is; and to the best of our knowledge how effective some restrictions may prove. It tells us nothingabout whether - following a cost benefit analysis which includes the harm and deaths caused by lockdowns - restrictions should be used.
That is a political decision.
Some may conclude lockdown harm is worth it for Covid 19 and others will disagree. Fine. What troubles me is that the debate is never had and rarely mentioned. The politicians hide behind "the science"; the media just focus on the far sexier "plague" story. No one is therefore held to account.
That some countries who did not lockdown have the same or better mortality rates than those who did is central to the debate (lockdowns kill too...) and we need to learn from them; not keep overlooking them as an inconvenient truth.
And we don't have to be scientists to note the problem. Covid 19 the virus (for scientists) is a different subject entirely from competing public health priorities and human rights (for all of us); even if the media, politicians and most of the world appear not to realise this at the moment. |
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hedda |
Wyot wrote:
Nurse Hedda wrote:
The Lancet says otherwise.
www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00885-0/fulltext
As of April 16, 2021, more than 13 700 people have died from COVID-19 in Sweden. The country has one of the highest infection rates in western Europe according to Our World in Data COVID-19 statistics, with 606 new infections per million per day, while its neighbours Denmark, Finland, and Norway reported 115, 62, and 112 new infections per million per day, respectively (April 15, 2021). New and more infective and deadly variants have taken over, and by April 15, 2021, the UK SARS-Cov-2 variant was supected to have caused 75–100% of all new cases in all regions. This indicates more rapid spread, more deaths, and that more young people will be affected, with intensive care units already at full capacity in some regions.4
I didn't mention infections nurse! I mentioned deaths. 15th Aug Sweden = 0/7 day average = 0. That is no deaths currently on my maths Hedda. And also far fewer deaths in total than most countries who endured restrictions. I think Sweden is an awkward case for mainstream Covid restriction enthusiasts...
I admit I'm not a qualified nursie.. 
I live in a country now that has relatively few deaths (all are tragic - 15 year old boy 2 days ago) compared to the rest of the world but we are in a fierce lockdown.
Even the infection rates are low..400 today compared to 1000s in the UK..10,000s in the US.
I really have no idea why or how it all works..just place faith in 1000s of scientists and medical researchers and avoid the University of Youtube & Facebook
I suppose in years to come researchers will examine this pandemic minutely. |
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JK2006 |
Yes this new variant of flu struck and nobody knew quite what it was. But as the months went by, vaccines were found that worked very well at making it almost totally less lethal and considerably less serious for the vulnerable - many of whom caught it and died. Meanwhile the virus itself mutated and changed. Plus the vaccines affected it. Still, I think, the vulnerable (not always the obvious ones) will be affected differently. Obesity - big problem. Always was. Smokers (even years ago) may look fit now but lungs can have suffered long term damage. Likewise recreational drugs. Abuse of alcohol. But this was never a killer plague. At the start to was like a bad flu season. Sweden coped well; if only they had also protected care homes. |
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Honey |
Wyot wrote:
[quote]Honey wrote:
Green Man wrote:
I don't think there is a great deal of difference in actual ingredients except more fish, more butter,
More fruit, more vegetables, more pulses, and everything kept simple really.
Loads of puddings and cake though, so probably no better than any other diet.
I suppose it is possible that there is more vitamin D in the diet? But more likely that people just stand further away from each other, I think.
I suspect it is a question of how many in Sweden eat a balanced, healthy diet and have an active lifestyle compared with Brits - who do the least exercise and are the fattest in Europe.
Sweden has an obesity problem too, it seems.
I am becoming less convinced by the theory of it only striking unhealthy people hard.
It makes sense, but I know too many exceptionally fit people who have become very unwell indeed. (or worse)
Obviously I wouldn't know about symptomless untested people whatever their age, but there seems to be so many twenty-somethings badly affected that it cant be a fluke? 
I think maybe we are being given advice based on the "old" virus when the Delta mutant is very different?
But looking on the bright side, there cant be many of us left who haven't had it by now, surely?  |
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Wyot |
Honey wrote:
[quote]Green Man wrote:
I don't think there is a great deal of difference in actual ingredients except more fish, more butter,
More fruit, more vegetables, more pulses, and everything kept simple really.
Loads of puddings and cake though, so probably no better than any other diet.
I suppose it is possible that there is more vitamin D in the diet? But more likely that people just stand further away from each other, I think.
I suspect it is a question of how many in Sweden eat a balanced, healthy diet and have an active lifestyle compared with Brits - who do the least exercise and are the fattest in Europe. |
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