I thought he may be found guilty on same charges but others seemed quite preposterous.

One thing struck me and this was a matter the jury referred to with their 'veracity/voracity' question : the selling of stories to the media.

The prosecution reached an all time low when they proposed that claimants selling tabloid tales was no different to Harris writing a auto-biography.

I honestly think Britain is totally fucked now. These witch-hunts are symptoms of something far deeper, far darker in society. Whether Savile /Harris/ Clifford etc etc are guilty or not is beside the point...something sinister has been unleashed.

I'm cancelling my visit later this year. I think I'm over London for now as much as I love it. I think New York still has a lovely madness and vibrancy that I find missing in the UK. There are so many European cities I still haven't been to. That are not obsessed with 'pedo rings' etc
I just don't think I want to visit a country where something like the Savile fiasco could fill the airwaves, could consume so much media space and create so many fanatics.

hedda wrote:

I just don't think I want to visit a country where something like the Savile fiasco could fill the airwaves, could consume so much media space and create so many fanatics.

Thank god the internet hasn't been invented so you won't hear all about it anyway. I agree, though, it's sad and depressing. The behaviour of the prosecution lawyer was an absolute disgrace and it wasn't even questioned. Incompetence all the way through. And when Roache was supposedly exonerated by the court, the police were allowed to come out and basically suggest the 'wrong verdict' had been reached. When it's guilty, no one questions it.

Can somebody please explain to me how anyone can be convicted of a witnessless "crime" that was supposed to be committed in a poxy community centre that would be the very last place an international star with a huge number one hit would perform in? (and if he did, surely it would be the talk of the town?)
I am absolutely baffled.

I am also unconvinced by the idea of someone being abused on stage "where nobody could see because it was from behind"
Yes, the audience might not see, but there is always someone in the wings and it is difficult (because of the lights) to see far beyond the stage so you wouldn't be able to tell if you were being watched or not.
(To be fair, a poxy community centre might well have only had a sixty watt bulb)

Well we weren't in court to assess the voracity of the witnesses but something smells - again.

honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:
Can somebody please explain to me how anyone can be convicted of a witnessless "crime" that was supposed to be committed in a poxy community centre that would be the very last place an international star with a huge number one hit would perform in? (and if he did, surely it would be the talk of the town?)
I am absolutely baffled.

I am also unconvinced by the idea of someone being abused on stage "where nobody could see because it was from behind"
Yes, the audience might not see, but there is always someone in the wings and it is difficult (because of the lights) to see far beyond the stage so you wouldn't be able to tell if you were being watched or not.
(To be fair, a poxy community centre might well have only had a sixty watt bulb)

A mate saw him live at a club in Romford, my old driving instructor said he performed at his local town hall, not forgetting he has done a numerous amount of gigs at universities.

MWT has new information to be revealed tomorrow
twitter.com/mwilliamsthomas/status/483677018568294402

JK2006 wrote:
Well we weren't in court to assess the voracity of the witnesses but something smells - again.

..... yes - mainly Rolf's "confession" doggy card !!!!!!

With regards to the case of Rolf's daughter's freind, who claimed that Rolf assaulted her when she was between 13 and 19, and then he went on to have a relationship with her until she was 29.

Why would you have a relationship with someone that had abused you as a teenager. Did anyone ask that obvious question during the trial?

I left the UK to live in South Africa some years ago, and I thank God I did. The UK has become like Salem, history will recall this as one of the darkest periods of English justice and attitudes

Any excuse to implicate him with Broadmoor and Savile

Given that the Leigh Park area in Portsmouth is one of the most deprived areas of the country im surprised there hasn't been a stampede of claims from that community centre appearance.

I thought the press coverage was even more weighted towards painting him Guilty than usual.

And having witnessed Miranda Moore QC 'bantering' with the press outside the court room at the DLT trial about 'what they put on Twitter' (chortle, chortle) there is certainly something very very wrong - problem is most of the 'press' are 20-something hipsters who tweet and report back to superiors who tell them what to write. They are not journalists as I know them - nice kids maybe, but just wage slave lackey's.

You are all delusionalists !

The Jury heard the evidence ...

.... read the "apology" card

.... heard him lie about being in Cambridge etc etc

Will you ever believe that anyone ever committed an offence ?

You do the cause (of stamping out false convictions) no good at all by insisting that everyone ever convicted MUST be innocent (despite the evidence).

Just Me wrote:
Any excuse to implicate him with Broadmoor and Savile


The NHS trust that runs Broadmoor Hospital has confirmed that disgraced children's entertainer Rolf Harris visited the premises after being invited by Jimmy Savile.

news.sky.com/story/1292620/rolf-harris-v...or-with-jimmy-savile

Is that clear enough for you ?

Listening to Radio 5 this morning there have been a lot of interviews with female entertainers and journalists who have come forward to tell about their experiences with Rolf Harris. Having listened to their voices I believe their stories. These people have nothing to gain from coming forward, in fact there are probably more negatives for them than positives. The level of groping and sexual harassment they described was more than anything that could be considered acceptable, even in the 1970's or 1980's.

I do think his celebrity was a contributing factor, it gave him exposure to lots of opportunities and there would be an unbalance of power and influence if the "victim" complained. If you do things which you enjoy and nobody complains the likelihood is that you continue doing it and over time will push the boundaries further and further. On this forum some people will say that unless you witness an event yourself you can never be sure it actually happened. Though this is true everyone is entitled to form an opinion based on evidence they have heard. In cases like this and the Savile one there will be false claims from people looking to make some easy money but if there is even one claim which is believable then action is required. I am not sure that a court case and prison is the appropriate action for these historic sex cases but I don't know if the alternatives would be acceptable either. It illustrates the power of the CPS a body that has to make those judgement calls. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I struggle with some of the postings on here, based on the process of law having taken place, a willingness to question just about everything (like a court does) but also an underlying belief that fundamentally anything said in these cases is constructed and miscontrued every single time in every single way...............

OK, If I believed i was a victim of a miscarriage, like Mr King does, I might share a degree of this view. But, and this is a big but, I honestly don't believe that every case has been the same, that every case is perverted by the celebrity issue and that however much the media can report, misreport and make up............the CPS and the Police and society at learge in the direction it is going, has to investigate and probe allegations like these.........

Mr King believes democracy doesn't work, but he supports an equally unworkable idea of a borderless world with less Government and more personal cooperation between humans........its a great idea, but only an idea based on your perspective of how life is teeating you. If you are of independent income, of an independent society structure (not employed for your income, not tied to a mortgage, not bringing up a dependent family etc....all the trapping of the majority population) then you would and I prefer a Government looking after the admin of the running of the country, I'd massively dislike to have a 'free for all' fragmented society where the many minorities hold a bigger sway over the majority......The system we have now is evolved from a feudal free for all, where local warlords over the years have had to cooperate and relinquish power for the sake of peaceful neighbours.........why go backwards.....against the exiting evolution of society? It didn't work then, won't work going forward.

In terms of the celebrity status and false 'allegation industry' as it is called here, I think it is wholey unreasonable to suggest that all cases are the same, that all allegations are the same and all motives are the same........society just might be catching up with criminal activities of an older generation, just like cold case crimes (not all are murders)

No ITK, many on here don't feel he was innocent - all I say is - we weren't in court and didn't hear the evidence. But I repeat - the entire judicial structure and reasoning behind historical allegation prosecutions is dangerously unfair. And times change. What might have been acceptable then isn't now. Look forward to hundreds of charges against NON celebrities as "ordinary" people start deciding to complain about their Dads, Mums, Uncles, Aunts, teachers, priests, gym instructors, driving instructors, bosses…

If prosecutions could be brought (and succeed) against people who drove over the speed limit 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago - should society prosecute and clog up courts, police time, lawyers, jails?

Suppose Bertha Bloggs saw you ITK driving at 36 mph in a 30 mph speed limit zone 40 years ago. Should she report you? Should police investigate? Should the CPS prosecute? Should you admit guilt? Should you get 3 months in Belmarsh? Is this sensible?

And God forbid if you ever smoked a joint (illegal) or took LSD (illegal) or Ecstasy (illegal)...

Speeding and casual drug taking and posession can be dealt with by 'fixed penalty fines', of course the eveidence of an historical Joe Bloggs accusation wouldn't be taken seriously if verbally made, but video evidence of historical speeding, bad driving etc has been investigated when years later or months later it appears as video evidence on YouTube............pretty much undeniable video evidence......historical never the less

If only the historical video evidence of 'kiddy fiddle' videos could be dealt with the same way.....I'm sure it is investigated, but Youtube is not the source, and the originators have many layers of defence.

very annoying & depressing but not unexpected to read ITK's claptrap and Blue Boy's completely false accusation that posters on here never believe accusations or imply everyone is innocent.

it is simply not true and there is no evidence on this forum that anyone has ever proposed such a nonsensical belief or notion- and if there is- please point it out or apologise (but will not hold breath waiting)

that is a symptom however of the current hysteria that sweeps the land.

my original post does not make this claim nor do any of the answers: I specifically state what I believed would happen.

I further point out that the prosecution made what i think are disturbing claims and have set a precedent that should worry everyone and I repeat : that 2 complainants hiring a publicist and negotiating sales of their stories was the equivalent of Rolf Harris writing his autobiography.

It seems the jury accepted this.
I prefer the beliefs of the recently retired (and highly respected in legal circles) NSW Director of Public Prosecutions Nicholas Cowdrey QC who described this action as "utterly despiscable and basically making it impossible for Rolf Harris to receive a fair trial"

Cowdrey is a tough man who prosecuted vicious criminals & corrupt police successfully who stood his ground & prevailed against 20 years of political attacks from the left & right & News Corp tabloids.

And if this was accepted by the jury along with other oddities pointed out, I seriously doubt anyone could ever receive a fair trial when faced with allegations that date back 20 / 30 & sometimes 50 years as a Catholic Bishop in Australia now faces (one charge against 1 youth- how can that be defended in the current climate?)

Of course now having decided I don't really want to visit the UK this year- Australia has gone into a an absolute orgy of "WE ALL KNEW ABOUT ROLF HARRIS ALL ALONG" etc etc blah blah which again, does not explain why the same media promoted him year after year.

and all sorts of tired old has been failed 'TV hostesses ' are coming out of the wood work ( odd- Rolf's wandering hands never seemed to have groped a really really famous person)claiming "horror horror" "his wandering and felt my bum and my life has been ruined and I turned to drink & drugs, fraud and so on"

Odd isn't it ? : just as we celebrate those who went to a fucking God awful war and saw unspeakable horrors...so horrific my Grandfather who was beaten senseless once by vile Japanese jailers and watched two friend being decapitated, others tortured and nursed one pal for 5 hours before he realised he was dead (he witnessed other atrocities too vile too speak about), came back and just got on with life, had families, went to work stayed sober and so on, and never received a bloody cent in compensation

But no : Rolf Harris may have had inappropriate wandering hands , groped a breast, squeezed a buttock and MY LIFE WAS ROONED ! ( SO SHOW ME THE MONEY !!)

you are quite wrong JK.

Things haven't changed one iota.

Just watch one episode of Sun Sea Sex & Suspicious Parents and there is plenty of a'groping and a'fiddling whilst drunk and disorderly (now not an excuse) and any one of them could end up on a charge one day.

Let alone- in pubs and nightclubs across Britain young people are goosing each other & being told to piss orf or grope harder or bumbling into a toilet for a quick shag which they may, or may not remember tomorrow.

Come the age of 50 and life didn't turn out to be the fairy tale they expected, those who participated may now cry foul.