In The Know wrote:
Spee wrote:
Spee wrote:

When the Tories came into power in 2010 - the National Debt was £960 billion.
Now it's £2 trillion - doubled in only 7 years.

Still no idea why (or if!) this happened?

Quite the reverse !

Everyone - except YOU - can see that Labour opposed every attempt to cut, and balance the books (and even now are promising more and more borrowing and yet more debt).

Which is why Labour have been eliminated in Scotland and decimated in Wales.

All these polices equals to even more money to help the poor has to come from somewhere.

Money for libraries, pupils having free instruments, protecting dolers and scrapping Trident will cost billions and then there will have to be another defence mechanism in place.

I can't see Corbyn on the negotiations discussing a good deal on Brexit, he will crumble.

Good to see you back ITK.

Spee wrote:
our National Debt is around £2 trillion now

Everyone - except YOU - can see that Labour opposed every attempt to cut,
and balance the books (and even now are promising more and more borrowing and yet more debt).

I'm currently reading "All out war" by Sunday Times political editor Tim Shipman about the EU referendum campaign. He seems to have had good contacts and the account of both sides of the campaign appears reasonably balanced. I'm half-way through a chapter called "Labour isn't working" about the Labour leadership's "role" in the effort to keep Britain in the EU. It seems that Jeremy Corbyn and those around him, in particular John McDonnell and Seamus Milne (who, according to a Labour insider, have Corbyn "by the ears"), had been at best disinterested in helping Labour's Stronger In campaign, let alone the official Remain campaign, and at worse downright obstructive.

This attitude seems to be reflected in the current silence on Labour/Jeremy Corbyn's Twitter and Facebook pages, about Brexit, when it's supposed to be the reason for the general election, when Theresa May is grabbing headlines on the issue and when the Tories are portraying themselves as the party to chart Britain's future through the possibly rocky waters. Perhaps Labour thinks it's too hot to handle and/or haven't devised a policy on it yet. Whatever the reason, the silence looks odd.

Jeremy Corbyn and his cohorts seem to be dragging the Labour party right down, but I bet he will cling on even if Labour is badly beaten, citing media bias (as if he was the first Labour leader to be criticised by the right-wing press) and resounding membership support. They and an unfettered Tory government are going to make people suffer.

In The Know (as always !) wrote:
Spee wrote:
our National Debt is around £2 trillion now

Everyone - except YOU - can see that Labour opposed every attempt to cut,
and balance the books (and even now are promising more and more borrowing and yet more debt).


Great - you now agree the National Debt is about £2 trillion, having doubled in the past 7 years during which the Tories were in charge.

But it was all Labour's fault - even though they were not in (or part of) government, were not empowered to borrow or didn't spend any central funds?

Spee wrote:
- even though they were not in (or part of) government, were not empowered to borrow or didn't spend any central funds?

... but their debts were still here ... and still need paying off!

You are about as good at maths as Dianne Abbott !

In The Know wrote:
Spee wrote:
- even though they were not in (or part of) government, were not empowered to borrow or didn't spend any central funds?

... but their debts were still here ... and still need paying off!

You are about as good at maths as Dianne Abbott !

So will have an influx of foreign coppers under Labour ?

John Major left a National Debt of £400+ billion - when he left government in 1997, compiled mainly in the Thatcher years.

Tony Blair left c£960 billion in 2010; this has now risen to around £2,000 billion (£2 trillion) under the Conservatives.

It will be obvious (to most¡) that the majority of our Debt (70/75%) arose during the tenure of Conservative governments.


All these figures are a matter of public record - which you choose to ignore - and are so easily verifiable, if only you could google!

Please dispute them if you think they're incorrect...

Gordon Brown* left...

Spee wrote:
John Major left a National Debt of £400+ billion - when he left government in 1997, compiled mainly in the Thatcher years.

Tony Blair left c£960 billion in 2010; this has now risen to around £2,000 billion (£2 trillion) under the Conservatives.

It will be obvious (to most¡) that the majority of our Debt (70/75%) arose during the tenure of Conservative governments.


All these figures are a matter of public record - which you choose to ignore - and are so easily verifiable, if only you could google!

Please dispute them if you think they're incorrect...




Is the increase to £2,000 billion because of the interest on Labour's loan, or have the conservatives continued to borrow?

honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:
Is the increase to £2,000 billion because of the interest on Labour's loan, or have the conservatives continued to borrow?

Both, honey! ... Interest on Labour's debt is currently costing us £43 BILLION a year (to put that into perspective thats about half the cost of education per year, and about a third of the yearly cost of the NHS).

Without Labour's debt we could have an extra £43 BILLION a year going into the NHS - this year and every year - without us paying one single penny more.

The Conservatives have reduced the amount needed to be borrowed each year (the "cuts") but we are STILL paying out more money each and every month than we earn, hence the extra borrowing. This deficit is being reduced (its now about half what it was) - but still more room to go.

You will have noticed that Labour have opposed each and every planned attempt to make any saving - and even now are promising yet more borrowing to fund their loony plans.

Let's hope - for God's sake - that Dianne Abbott is NOT in charge of the finances.

Progress at last!

You don't dispute any of the figures I quoted.


Not long ago - you were denying the existence of the c£2 trillion National Debt!!

Spee wrote:

Not long ago - you were denying the existence of the c£2 trillion National Debt!!

Evidence ???

It is you for whom the penny has finally dropped with your repeated insistence that the debt was exclusively down to the Tories

Spee wrote:
John Major left a National Debt of £400+ billion - when he left government in 1997, compiled mainly in the Thatcher years.

Tony Blair left c£960 billion in 2010; this has now risen to around £2,000 billion (£2 trillion) under the Conservatives.

It will be obvious (to most¡) that the majority of our Debt (70/75%) arose during the tenure of Conservative governments.


All these figures are a matter of public record - which you choose to ignore - and are so easily verifiable, if only you could google!

Please dispute them if you think they're incorrect...

I never said 'the Debt was exclusively down to the Tories' - see above!

But Major left £400+ billion in Debt; easily veritable.


And Labour (Blair/Brown) had a number of budget surpluses - reducing the Debt - whilst the Tories last had one about 30 years ago..

This report makes the facts even clearer.


www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/t...r-the-last-70-years/


Over the past 70 years, Labour has borrowed a lot less than the Conservatives.

And Labour has repaid more debt - more often than the Conservatives.


No doubt - some will keep their heads buried in the sand...

In The Know wrote:

Evidence ???

It is you for whom the penny has finally dropped with your repeated insistence that the debt was exclusively down to the Tories

There's NO evidence, then ?

I'm not going into specifics but comparing what someone borrowed 70 years ago is futile and has no relation to what is happening today (and Labour almost certainly always inherited a better set of books than they ever left !!!!)

It does relate to the here and now - and just mentions that Tory borrowing is nothing new.

Nor is their reluctance to reduce debt.

Fine if you refuse to read it - and continue to make a fool of yourself.

A bright man once said, ITK - 'There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true'...


With a National Debt about to break the £2 trillion barrier for the first time, even the most avid supporter of the Conservative party saw problems.

Obvious, in an economy where the National Debt is growing at unprecedented levels and speed, coupled with a perennial budget deficit.

However - I am not suggesting the Labour Party, or any other(s), could/would do any better. I just think the real facts should be the basis for our electoral choices.

They are both useless - a coalition is the best alternative.

Spee wrote:
continue to make a fool of yourself.

only one fool around here - where is the White Badger ?

There are about 60 seats that Labour (and others) hold with a small 9,000 majority.

Bookies odds are 1/50 for a Conservative win. That means - bet £50 to win £1, if you think they'll lose.

Unless there is a tsunami - the Conservatives will win, by some margin and gain most of the 60 seats.

Austerity is next though...costs must be reduced - education, Trident, NHS and welfare.

It won't be an easy ride, after an easy win...