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TOPIC: Momentum
#164158
Momentum 2 Months, 1 Week ago Karma: 49
Interesting discussion on MARR regarding Momentum; with several comments saying - what's wrong with a movement that democratically has different views on policies? We all know about the extreme left; but Momentum appears to be a perfectly valid and very successful organisation.
 
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#164173
hedda

Re:Momentum 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
no different to the Monday Club.
 
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#164200
In The Know

Re:Momentum 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
JK2006 wrote:
Interesting discussion on MARR regarding Momentum; with several comments saying - what's wrong with a movement that democratically has different views on policies? We all know about the extreme left; but Momentum appears to be a perfectly valid and very successful organisation.

What is the point of it - if not an "entity within an entity" to bully others into acdepting its viewpoint.

It used to be called MILITANT TENDANCY (at least most of its membership were members of that Trot organisation - dedicated to destroying our society).
 
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#164201
In The Know

Re:Momentum 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
hedda wrote:
no different to the Monday Club.

We can't deport hedda, can we? ... he's already there !

Speaking to Newsnight, Mr Blair said he still believed "it's a surer route to power to fight from the centre" and that it would be damaging for the country if Mr Corbyn became prime minister and imposed "an unreconstructed far Left programme".
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40624245

Now there's someone who HAS won elections - three in a row (and don;t the left wing Loonies hate him for it?)!!!
 
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#164202
Re:Momentum 2 Months, 1 Week ago Karma: 49
How strange - ITK praising Blair. But no surprise; Blair was essentially as much Tory Lite as he was Labour Lite. Neither worked; so it's no surprise that many are starting to wonder whether Corbyn's intelligent adaptation of the Far Left into a middle left ground might work better than our previous failures. Cameron and Blair governments have brought us to this point; personally I'd like another coalition; this time Corbyn controlled by Clegg. But that seems unlikely; so I'd give Jeremy's team a chance. But it's not up to me; I will never be voting again.
 
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#164207
In The Know

Re:Momentum 2 Months ago  
Blair was not a success?

Three election victories (showing the country rather liked him)

He made Labour electable ... but always had the left wing Loonies snapping at his heels.

Every left wing programme has left us with the original problem + the debt + the interest payments ... so we end up worse off.

Why would something that has failed (in every socialist country for example) work this time???

The French couldn't wait to dump Hollande - he didn't even make the ballot paper for the second term !
 
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#164208
Re:Momentum 2 Months ago Karma: 49
Blair was a great success in getting elected and getting Labour back into power; but was he a success as Prime Minister? I think the jury is still out on that but suggest the Blair/Brown years were NOT good for the country. The general direction has not worked well over the past years. I would say the last truly successful British Government was that of Thatcher. Whether or not you liked her approach, which was clear Capitalism economically (which I thought was a great success - Ken Clarke best Chancellor in ages) and socially (NOT a success for me and I disagreed with most of that approach). Since then we have had a succession of weak governments which made the country decline. Now the only strong approach seems to me to be Corbyn's - adapted left philosophy; taking some good parts of the Communist philosophy (the social ones - for me) and adapting the bad parts (economic, in my opinion) to fit the new era.
Unless someone puts forward an adapted Capitalist approach, it strikes me that the country would be better off giving this alternative a chance.
 
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#164214
In The Know

Re:Momentum 2 Months ago  
You CANNOT have a society which panders to the scroungers while delivering economic prosperity (ask ANY former Communist country).

All debt has to be paid for (and it won;t be CorbynTrot's scroungers paying for it, will it?)
 
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#164215
Re:Momentum 2 Months ago Karma: 49
China seems to be doing OK.
 
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#164216
MT

Re:Momentum 2 Months ago  
For the record, Momentum is nothing like Militant. I'm old enough to remember both, and know people in both.

This is new politics, and the oldies - a bit like me - are often just not 'getting it'. It's not just young people either. New ways of communicating, new ways of organising.

The old left want to try and latch on (leech) off this, but they stick out a mile and are easily fended off.

Jeremy is genuinely being open and democratic, and is explicitly warning old lefties to stay away - they would like to deselct the Blairites - he is saying definitley "No".

The right wing (Tories and Blairites) just don't get it either - trotting out the old hard left nonsense. What Jeremy proposes is a return to the mixed economy of the post war consensus, but with a modern approach. Build homes, nationalise key elements of services (water, Rail, Electric perhaps). The bits the Thatcherites went too far with.

This agends appeals to the young, who have a cat in hell's chance of owning property.

I must admit that old cynic like me has been reinvigorated by this new movement. (I've even engaged in interesting political discussions with my kids as well, which I never expected.)
 
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#164219
In The Know

Re:Momentum 2 Months ago  
China is a capitalist country - look inland, millions of peasants struggling to survive. (In China, CorbynTrot would be in a prison camp)

All Communist countries had out-dated infastructure (so much for "borrowing to invest"!) and were up to their borrowing limit as they used all their income to service their debts.

Decaying buildings ... run down factories ... poor growth ... low wages ... no benefits (that mattered)
- why do you think people were queuing up to overthrow such regimes???
 
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#164222
Re:Momentum 2 Months ago Karma: 49
Thank you MT - exactly as I feel. I like and trust what I've seen of Corbyn; he's a far left extremist who has adapted as he's aged and, like John Mac, has come up with a formula that just might work in the modern world. Neither Communism or Capitalism has worked without being adapted. This new form of Left Wing Socialism looks interesting at least. Capitalism has ignored the poor and needy (and refugees). Communism failed to take into account that we are all individuals with different talents, ambitions and goals. Take the best of both. Dump the worst of both.

What's more, every insult hurled at either side pushes the majority away. One of the things I admired about Corbyn is that he didn't revive the old public school shouting match aspect of Prime Minister's Questions. I became so hating of it I couldn't watch anymore. He's reasoned, balanced, not confrontational (God knows how - I would be hurling shit at May). The more media and other politicians go on about "it's all the other party's fault" and silly nicknames, the more voters warm to the calm and considered, positive party.

Corbyn will, as I have predicted, be Prime Minister soon, and a good thing too. Whether his policies will work I don't know - and with Brexit looming I suspect no policy can reverse the disaster.
 
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#164233
In The Know

Re:Momentum 2 Months ago  
MT wrote:
For the record, Momentum is nothing like Militant. I'm old enough to remember both, and know people in both.

This is new politics, and the oldies - a bit like me - are often just not 'getting it'. It's not just young people either. New ways of communicating, new ways of organising.


new ways of intimidation ?

new ways of voting (students voted TWICE !)

Nothing new about this .... they couldn;t have a "new idea" if their lives depended on it.

New (Tory) PM by October - then 4 and a half years before the next election - by which time all these young impressionables will be more concerned with their careers, mortgages etc to worry about Loony Trots !
 
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