but this latest absurd fuss could almost be a reverse plan by his supporters to illustrate the stupidity of his enemies. For God's sake - he condemned violence on all sides - quite right. I suppose it also shows how - if you live by the 140 character sword, you die by it too.

Condemning violence on all sides when someone has been killed seems similar to the "all lives matter" response to "black lives matter". If I've understood correctly, "all lives matter" was coined by the "alt-right".

And the BBC just said Trump said both sides were "equally" to blame. He didn't. Just one word but, of course, a better story.

he actually said there were some "fine people on both sides"

He is wrong and it's an appalling insult to the over 60 million who died because of the Nazis including 400,000 Americans shows the utter scumbag not only is ignorant of history but is desperate to keep his core base of extreme right wing lunatics onside (do they pass out bottles of Ugly Pills to these over-weight buffoons?).

Far from being an "absurd fuss" (Christ you can be absurd at times JK)- it is actually a defining point at which he has probably lost even his rusted-on Republican Congress supporters,

The man opens his mouth before putting his brain in gear and this time- the glaring silence of 95% of Republicans, the look on the face of his Chief of Staff as this buffoon grifter prattled on..a military man who works for a draft dodger and knows what the Nazis cost the USA, says it all.

When the crunch comes..soon.. they will be in the queue to Impeach Trump. This was the straw , camel , back etc as they desperately need to get rid og this clown if they do not want to be decimated in both Houses in 2018.

A fascinating scenario will be opening up..as Pence may go down with Trump..who will be President by 2018?

CNN news are making it sound like Trump was the driver.

Well Hedda I bow to your superior knowledge but I would be very surprised if there weren't some fine people on both sides - many equally mistaken on some issues. I know, like and respect some fine people who actually approve of Brexit. Indeed I even know and like (you'll find this hard to accept) some heterosexuals. Although it is easier and simpler to categorise people into categories, in my long life (much longer than you, Hedda) I've found the various shades of grey theory not only correct but even illustrating that some humans have very good parts, very bad parts and mainly middle parts. And this silly storm over a teacup (when there are far worse things Trump has done and will continue to do) simply deflects sensible opinion and may even, God forbid, gain the man some new fans.

Some people like to preserve history Mr or Ms Hedda.

Otherwise there will not be historians.

JK2006 wrote:
Well Hedda I bow to your superior knowledge but I would be very surprised if there weren't some fine people on both sides - many equally mistaken on some issues. I know, like and respect some fine people who actually approve of Brexit.


JK, I'm actually quite gobsmacked by your comments here.

I drop by this site because I find you a refreshing breath of fresh air, who often sees through media sensationalism and manipulation, but on this occasion, no... just no.

Donald Trump says there are 'some mighty fine people on both sides'.

No.

Fascists, white supremacists and Ku Klux Klan members can never be mighty fine people. And you're comparing them to Brexit voters? Seriously JK, do you know who these people are? The KKK have a history of lynching innocent black Americans, 'Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze, Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees' as the song goes. A former KKK leader has thanked Trump for his support.

Trump knows what he is doing. There was plenty of language used in his campaign to lure racist elements, and he doesn't want to alienate them. Since his election, those fascist elements feel emboldened and that is what we are seeing now.

You liken those people to Brexit voters?? Wow, JK.... My Dad voted for Brexit. I think he was mistaken but still love him. But if he advocated racial supremacy I would be straight out.

Fortunately, many in Trump's own party see what's going on. I never had much time for Republican Senator John McCain, for example, but he called Trump out very well on Twitter yesterday, saying:

'There's no moral equivalency between racists & Americans standing up to defy hate & bigotry. The President of the United States should say so'

The President of the United States is saying there are some mighty fine people among neo Nazis, racial supremacists and KKK members. To have a President of the US say such a thing is deeply disturbing. At best, a President not wanting to alienate fascists because he needs them. At worst, A President sympathising with such people.

There is a rise in all kinds of racism and hatred in the US and Europe right now. Do we really want to go back to the 30s?

Because that's what this reminds me of.

Again; if you're right and those were the only people involved in this - then I'm wrong. If it is all a bit more complicated, with some people wanting a statue removed for valid reasons and others wanting it to stay for equally valid reasons and then other more extreme elements took over and the entire situation was hijacked by the two extremes - then Trump has a point. I really don't know the truth; don't trust the media; think many situations are more complicated than tabloid headlines describe them. But I'm clearly in a minority and those who probably know better than I believe only extreme bigots and far leftists are involved. Perhaps it is a mistake to consider shades of grey. I'm sure your Dad, like so many of my friends, has many good points, is an intelligent analyst, has thought deeply about Brexit and has come to a different conclusion to us. I'm equally sure that many who voted Brexit are racists and bigots. Just as many Remainers are simplistic imbeciles. I suspect there are many fine individuals on all sides of many disagreements. And I suspect most explosions of hatred come from a small minority of idiots. Just as I don't blame Muslims for terrorism, I tend to think that not all violence has valid reasons.

JK I intrinsically believe in shades of grey, unless people are carrying Nazi flags.

And if they were all carrying Nazi flags I would agree with you.

Should we approve of the small section of anti racists who used violence? Or should we, like Trump, condemn everyone who uses violence? Ought we to praise terrorists who battle Nazis, bigots, fascists, paedos? Where do we draw the line? Only against those with different views to us? If a paedo army started killing cops, I would be 100% against them.

JK2006 wrote:
Well Hedda I bow to your superior knowledge but I would be very surprised if there weren't some fine people on both sides - many equally mistaken on some issues. I know, like and respect some fine people who actually approve of Brexit. Indeed I even know and like (you'll find this hard to accept) some heterosexuals. Although it is easier and simpler to categorise people into categories, in my long life (much longer than you, Hedda) I've found the various shades of grey theory not only correct but even illustrating that some humans have very good parts, very bad parts and mainly middle parts. And this silly storm over a teacup (when there are far worse things Trump has done and will continue to do) simply deflects sensible opinion and may even, God forbid, gain the man some new fans.

trying to compare Brexit with Trump's support for a bunch of Nazi goons who marched down a Charlottesville street screaming "Jews will not replace us" and other Fascist slogans, who carried fearsome weapons to intimidate others, who beat several people to a pulp.,.is bizarre.

The only connection the two have is that arrogant SOB Nigel Farage appears now to have been heavily involved with Julian Assange, who increasingly looks like a Putin go-between, and the Russian funded company that created highly suspect internet memes that used complete falsehoods to so successfully promote the Brexit cause and Trump's campaign on social media.

There are no "fine" people in a bunch of openly murderous thugs who are Nazis. You march with ugly racists . you are one of them
The only "fine" Nazi is a dead Nazi.

## Andrew still needs that interpreter but I assume he is alluding to the fact this pack of hideous scumbags were marching to protest the removal of a statue dedicated to a White Slaver who killed other Americans in the 1000s in order to preserve slavery.

## The fact the Southern states- some which did not even exist during the Civil War and some which were never involved in it, are riddled with statues of White Slavers who killed 10,000s of Americans to preserve slavery has also been ignored.

### The fact the Charlottesville city council has a Jewish Mayor and 3 Jewish councilors - all born in Charlottesville unlike the Fascist scumbags who caused the deaths of 3 people that day, seems to have been ignored by the media.

#### History can be preserved : that's what they have Museums for. Or maybe Andrew thinks a statue of Adolf Hitler should be placed next to Winston Churchill's with the message below "there are fine people on both sides"

You can also visit a Holocaust Museum and get a good overview of history but I doubt you would find Germans would appreciate a statue of Hitler- certainly an historic figure- in the middle of a Munich square when over 5 million died because of his insanity.

Watch this superb Vice film from the day and you get an idea of who these highly dangerous but diseased brain creeps are:

news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-fu...ille-race-and-terror

in another era...

david wrote:
JK2006 wrote:
Well Hedda I bow to your superior knowledge but I would be very surprised if there weren't some fine people on both sides - many equally mistaken on some issues. I know, like and respect some fine people who actually approve of Brexit.


JK, I'm actually quite gobsmacked by your comments here.
.

The problem David is that JK thinks he runs the bloody joint.

I see even Piers Morgan agrees with you - so how can I complain?

JK2006 wrote:
I see even Piers Morgan agrees with you - so how can I complain?

Thank you.

Talk about a back handed compliment !

hedda wrote:
JK2006 wrote:
Well Hedda I bow to your superior knowledge but I would be very surprised if there weren't some fine people on both sides - many equally mistaken on some issues. I know, like and respect some fine people who actually approve of Brexit. Indeed I even know and like (you'll find this hard to accept) some heterosexuals. Although it is easier and simpler to categorise people into categories, in my long life (much longer than you, Hedda) I've found the various shades of grey theory not only correct but even illustrating that some humans have very good parts, very bad parts and mainly middle parts. And this silly storm over a teacup (when there are far worse things Trump has done and will continue to do) simply deflects sensible opinion and may even, God forbid, gain the man some new fans.

trying to compare Brexit with Trump's support for a bunch of Nazi goons who marched down a Charlottesville street screaming "Jews will not replace us" and other Fascist slogans, who carried fearsome weapons to intimidate others, who beat several people to a pulp.,.is bizarre.

The only connection the two have is that arrogant SOB Nigel Farage appears now to have been heavily involved with Julian Assange, who increasingly looks like a Putin go-between, and the Russian funded company that created highly suspect internet memes that used complete falsehoods to so successfully promote the Brexit cause and Trump's campaign on social media.

There are no "fine" people in a bunch of openly murderous thugs who are Nazis. You march with ugly racists . you are one of them
The only "fine" Nazi is a dead Nazi.

## Andrew still needs that interpreter but I assume he is alluding to the fact this pack of hideous scumbags were marching to protest the removal of a statue dedicated to a White Slaver who killed other Americans in the 1000s in order to preserve slavery.

## The fact the Southern states- some which did not even exist during the Civil War and some which were never involved in it, are riddled with statues of White Slavers who killed 10,000s of Americans to preserve slavery has also been ignored.

### The fact the Charlottesville city council has a Jewish Mayor and 3 Jewish councilors - all born in Charlottesville unlike the Fascist scumbags who caused the deaths of 3 people that day, seems to have been ignored by the media.

#### History can be preserved : that's what they have Museums for. Or maybe Andrew thinks a statue of Adolf Hitler should be placed next to Winston Churchill's with the message below "there are fine people on both sides"

You can also visit a Holocaust Museum and get a good overview of history but I doubt you would find Germans would appreciate a statue of Hitler- certainly an historic figure- in the middle of a Munich square when over 5 million died because of his insanity.

Watch this superb Vice film from the day and you get an idea of who these highly dangerous but diseased brain creeps are:

news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-fu...ille-race-and-terror

Hedda do you seriously think everyone who protested against the removal of the status was racist. I mean everyone of them. So people want the statue to remain as a symbol to reminds us racists lost the war.

If you looked at alt left they were macing and throwing newspaper stands and getting up close. If you do that you will get your just desserts.

JK2006 wrote:
Should we approve of the small section of anti racists who used violence? Or should we, like Trump, condemn everyone who uses violence? Ought we to praise terrorists who battle Nazis, bigots, fascists, paedos? Where do we draw the line? Only against those with different views to us? If a paedo army started killing cops, I would be 100% against them.

I dont understand the bit about the paedo army.

andrew wrote:
Hedda do you seriously think everyone who protested against the removal of the status was racist. I mean everyone of them. So people want the statue to remain as a symbol to reminds us racists lost the war.
BBC: Trump defends ‘beautiful’ Civil War statues

Contains a video "What Trump said versus what I saw" by a BBC reporter.

"But relatives of Stonewall Jackson, a Confederate leader Mr Trump mentioned in his Thursday tweets, wrote an open letter** to the mayor of Richmond, Virginia, urging him to remove the statue of their great-great-grandfather and all other Confederate statues in town.
Jack and Warren Christian, Mr Jackson's great-great-grandsons, said removing the statues would "further difficult conversations about racial justice"."

** Includes the following: "Confederate monuments like the Jackson statue were never intended as benign symbols. Rather, they were the clearly articulated artwork of white supremacy. Among many examples, we can see this plainly if we look at the dedication of a Confederate statue at the University of North Carolina, in which a speaker proclaimed that the Confederate soldier “saved the very life of the Anglo-Saxon race in the South.” Disturbingly, he went on to recount a tale of performing the “pleasing duty” of “horse whipping” a black woman in front of federal soldiers. All over the South, this grotesque message is conveyed by similar monuments. As importantly, this message is clear to today’s avowed white supremacists."

If there really were innocent non-racist monument enthusiasts amongst the crowd of white supremacists, they must have been happy to march alongside the racists, which would call into question whether they were in fact not racist. I think this idea of "fine" people was just an absurd invention by Trump, put forward in an attempt to win the argument and retain white supremacist supporters and sympathisers for 2020.