Sent to me - slowly but surely the observers are coming around to my way of thinking.

We need more snappy stats like the above for perspective.

The following article surely has some stats in that should make people at least consider thinking....:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-cov...tter_impression=true

In the UK there were 727 more deaths than the five year average week ending 30th July in private homes.

Deaths at home have been 40% higher than those registered "with" Covid in any other setting in the last 6 weeks: 4526 Vs 2799). PHE suggest these potentially avoidable deaths are due to people being deterred from attending hospital.

Admissions for all life threatening conditions are very low following the successful media/political deliberate terror campaign.

A further Gov report suggests 200 000 might die because of delays in health care and the social and economic costs of our reaction to this virus that so far has killed less than a flu season.

We have lost sanity and people are dying every day in far greater numbers than "with" Covid.

In time we will be adding a catastrophic addition to JK's list; with world-wide Panicdemic death stats dwarfing Spanish Flu unless we all wake up....

Indeed wyot and please give your wife a kiss from me!
My theory is that SUPERFICIALISATION has infected our species this century. I used to tell my friends in 1999 (I'm a King not a Prince) that civilisation would vanish during the approaching century. Indeed it very nearly did, for me, that very next year. But I survived (Gloria Gaynor). And am still going strong (R Dwight).

the figure I had for "Spanish" Flu was 200 million dead. Who knows.

But really those statistics only demonstrate how serious the Covid-19 virus is because we don't have a vaccine.

The Flu kills 100,000s every year despite having 100 years of medical research producing a new vaccine every year for a deadly virus that mutates into ever deadly strains, but still so many die.

I'm still puzzled why a new way to die which seems to have the experts baffled and is killing 100,000s in a short time, is being compared to another virus.

It's just really weird.

I reckon this is a line of argument that is not necessarily going to end in success for it's promoters.

re "all wake" wyot..in what way? What will happen when we all wake up?

that slip of paper is also irrelevant.

It's quoting historical figures after a deadly virus either petered out or was medically contained.

Covid is yet to be contained. We have no idea where it will go.

I shall put on "Everyone's Gone To The Moon" later and give her a kiss from you!

It is frightening isn't it the superficiality these days and hard to see how it will lead anywhere other than doom...

But the sun is shining; life is good.

hedda wrote:


re "all wake" wyot..in what way? What will happen when we all wake up?

We stop reacting to the virus in ways that take away human freedoms while killing more than the virus will. Simple.

hedda wrote:
Covid is yet to be contained. We have no idea where it will go.


Totally indisputable hedda.

Yet some are so certain - and wise.

Many even still think that this unknown disease is trivial.

wyot wrote:
hedda wrote:


re "all wake" wyot..in what way? What will happen when we all wake up?

We stop reacting to the virus in ways that take away human freedoms while killing more than the virus will. Simple.

not sure how you think the matter can be solved then.

it's a virus that spreads easily among groups.

people either isolate or mingle.

taking away "human freedoms" is a nonsense. they're taken away the minute you step out the door in a 100 ways.

Barney - what about the emerging data re the pointlessness of lockdown and all the data presented in the thread above. Can you engage with that or are just going to repeat endlessly that Covid is so awful...?

Hedda - Don't be so silly. Locking down the economy, keeping families apart, telling you what times you can leave your house are slightly more significant losses offreedom than what side of the road you can drive on.

Any understanding of history should give you pause for thought before being so casual....

How do we find out what the infection/death rates would have been if nobody had locked down at all?
There must have been a model covering the whole world, but I cant seem to find it.

Honey wrote:
How do we find out what the infection/death rates would have been if nobody had locked down at all?
There must have been a model covering the whole world, but I cant seem to find it.

We can't know Honey. We can only compare international responses (including no lockdowns) and draw tentative conclusions about the effectiveness of different approaches on varying demographics.

But in my view you don't initiate a disaster (as is started and coming because of our sustained lockdown) unless you have compelling evidence and reason to do so.

And that could only be evidence (which was never there for anyone who took the time to study it) demonstrating that the lives we are losing now due to lockdown were necessary to save far more lives.

We never had the evidence to justify it.

Some continue to mistake this view either as arrogant and unqualified; or callous.

It is neither.

It is informed and humane.

And I will shamelessly enjoy the schadenfreude over the next couple of years when the amoral press turns full circle and we have headlines like "Duped! Lockdown Lunacy..."

wyot wrote:
Barney - what about the emerging data re the pointlessness of lockdown and all the data presented in the thread above. Can you engage with that or are just going to repeat endlessly that Covid is so awful...?

Hedda - Don't be so silly. Locking down the economy, keeping families apart, telling you what times you can leave your house are slightly more significant losses offreedom than what side of the road you can drive on.

Any understanding of history should give you pause for thought before being so casual....

YES i AGREE WITH ALL THAT..IT'S REALLY TERRIBLE AND i FEEL FOR ANYONE UNDER SAY 50 THAT THE IMPACT (rotten caps light not working) on so many lives economically is frightening.

All very well for us secure oldies (who look years younger) but even in my little village of Bondi numerous little cafes and bars have shut permanently and they were a source of work for 100s of young people. Multiply that 1000 times.

# on the other hand there will also be 100s of ways to profit from Covid.

But I don't know the solution and can only go on what medical experts advise (of course they are not always right).

what's your solution apart from say our freedoms are being taken way?. That's not a particularly sensible approach as in times of crisis this often happens.

Let's say a huge fire or bomb decimates an area and coppers cordon it off..you can say your freedom to walk in that are is being taken away.

# I have an (annoying) pal who laps up every conspiracy claim going and says it's all some evil plot (needless to say George Soros & Bill Gates are involved ) and his reasoning is bizarre ..on one hand claims making people wear masks is some sort of government plot but then cannot explain his earlier claim governments are lining the country with CCTV so we can all be recognized and tracked??

### petrol station robbed here the other night by 2 men in covid masks..a year ago walking into anywhere with a mask would ring alarm bells.

I don't have any suggested solutions Hedda for what for some is an awful virus, and of course currently there is no vaccine so we can't say how far it will go at this stage.

I don't buy any conspiracy theories.

I think that what we have lost is a sense of proportion when you look at death rates. And yes I believe that the media hype the situation - is that a shock to anyone? And when this happens politicians follow.

The medical advice is not clear on a consencus re lockdown being effective or needed.

I hope I am wrong and the price - as you point out for under 50s economically but any age in terms of health treatment - that is and will be paid proves lockdown was fully justified to save hundreds of thousands or millions of lives.

But so far the evidence is mightily unclear Hedda...

wyot wrote:
Honey wrote:
How do we find out what the infection/death rates would have been if nobody had locked down at all?
There must have been a model covering the whole world, but I cant seem to find it.

We can't know Honey. We can only compare international responses (including no lockdowns) and draw tentative conclusions about the effectiveness of different approaches on varying demographics.

But in my view you don't initiate a disaster (as is started and coming because of our sustained lockdown) unless you have compelling evidence and reason to do so.

And that could only be evidence (which was never there for anyone who took the time to study it) demonstrating that the lives we are losing now due to lockdown were necessary to save far more lives.

We never had the evidence to justify it.

Some continue to mistake this view either as arrogant and unqualified; or callous.

It is neither.

It is informed and humane.

And I will shamelessly enjoy the schadenfreude over the next couple of years when the amoral press turns full circle and we have headlines like "Duped! Lockdown Lunacy..."

Oh I agree, Wyot. I am absolutely furious about the ongoing farce.

Not that I am necessarily anti-lockdown, if it was brief, complete, and coordinated with other places right at the start it would all be a distant memory now.

It is the pretending that REALLY annoys me.

the lockdown must be so annoying and depressing for young healthy people.

I've had serious reasons to visit a hospital urgently in the last 3 months..one a 4 day stay.

the treatment I got was sensational..because all elective surgery is on hold (must be awful for those waiting), Doctors , nurses fussing over me day and night.

A daughter of a close friend who has a severe condition that requires Ketamine to kill the pain has now been put on hold over an extended hospital stay. She was the youngest patient in Oz to be treated with Marijuana for pain but problems arose and she must be weaned off it.Delayed now until November when it was due to start in March.

Just one of probably 1000s of stories we don;t hear about where lives are upended.

hedda wrote:


Just one of probably 1000s of stories we don;t hear about where lives are upended.

Upended and ended lives Hedda.

The now thousands as you say we don't see weeping families talking about on our evening news; the thousands who aren't daily numbered on our smart phones as "UK Panicdemic death toll latest!".

These are the nameless ever increasing casualties of the mistimed and extensive lockdown the UK endured and in parts endures.

You won't hear about them on the mainstream media (at the moment). You have to look for them; they won't jump out. The casualties - men, women, children - are not all dead, of course.

Most will live; thousands of them have and will die.

Most are young now and about to find the future has been pulled from under them in terms of employment, dignity and independent living.

They will be angry,too; so we will all suffer.

Thousands have now died because they were too media-terrorised to attend a hospital or treatment was not available.

When I see reports/evidence casting doubt on the effect or need for our lockdown at the time and in the form it took; yes I get angry.

Angry at irresponsible media and posturing politicians who won't tell the truth because of their fucking careers.

I hope I am wrong. I hope the wreckage of our country and the future of a generation of young people being put on the line had to happen - because to have done otherwise would have meant millions more lives would have been lost.

But I think we just got it horribly wrong. Lockdown started too late. We failed to protect the vulnerable properly. As lockdown went on and on - fuelled by the flames of media - the politicians had no idea how to stop it.

Still don't.

Covid is not the greatest disaster that I have lived through (I'm 47), but our reaction to it - over time - will I believe prove to be.

The only way to stop this is for those in power to admit they have got it all horribly wrong and get the media on board to soothe a haunted nation.

Are Boris and Dominic noble and sage enough for the task?

Well said wyot.