for pointing out the truth about Flu. What am I missing? (Reality check; entire UK Covid deaths so far 42K).

It's not called "Twatter" for nothing.

Green Man wrote:
It's not called "Twatter" for nothing.

Yes, but when its full of people calling each other racists and paedophiles, telling the truth about flu seems a bit mild.

Trump is statistically correct about this because more people have historically tended to die of the flu for the following reasons:

1. We don’t have lockdowns for flu epidemics
2. In 2017/18 they got the vaccine wrong for the potent strain doing the rounds
3. We don’t wear face masks during flu epidemics
4. We don’t follow social distancing guidelines during flu epidemics
5. We don’t sanitise and wash our hands so much during flu epidemics
6. Because of points 1 thru 5, flu viruses are allowed to infect people indiscriminately.
7. Because of points 1 thru 6, vulnerable people can and do die of the flu.

If Trump had contracted the flu and not COVID-19, he wouldn’t have taken the plethora of drugs and supplements his doctors have so far administered to him. These include Remdesivir, Dexamethasone steroids, an expensive investigational antibody cocktail, Vitamin D and sleeping pills.

Lastly, in spite of Trump insisting Americans need not worry or be scared of the virus because they have the best medicines and doctors in the USA, most of these treatments are experimental and won’t be made available to the general public yet. So thank god we live in a civilised world in which we value saving lives; the flu will never again be treated in a blasé way.

Do we really want more people to die of COVID-19 because historically more vulnerable people have died of the flu? Do we want our hospitals’ ICUs to get overwhelmed with seriously ill people?

I certainly don't want anybody to die of anything; especially me (75 & diabetic). That's why I bought an expensive, reusable mask in February. That's why I wash my hands. That's why I avoid other elderly people unless precautions and social distancing are taken. Just as when I get Flu or a Common Cold. Likewise I don't think over reaction to media overhype does anybody any favours. The reason so few now are in serious conditions and even fewer dying is because the virus is mutating, treatments are improving, just as happened with Flu (50 million dead in one years 100 years ago). This has never been a lethal virus for the vast majority; way less dangerous than Flu until they found a flu vaccine. See France now compared to France six months ago (and it wasn't that dangerous statistically even then).

There is a reason we haven't had lockdowns for previous flu outbreaks. The outcome to society and lives lost is catastrophic and disportionate.

The same logic pertains to this latest variant of the coronavirus family. It is about proportionality of response.

No one wants anyone to die Karol Kingsky; nor has anyone suggested this, let alone stated it.

With regard to current (not historic) stats on flu and COVID-19 deaths, FullFact.Org say there is no evidence to support the claim that flu is (currently) killing more people than COVID-19. In fact, where the flu is mentioned as the “underlying” cause of death, there are almost certainly fewer deaths from it.

COVID-19 exceeds flu as the main cause of death given on death certificates currently being issued in England and Wales. Logically this means that it is DEFINITELY the more lethal of the two viruses. Case closed Ken.

See:- fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

You seem to be missing the point KK - I suspect deliberately; it's not whether there are more deaths today than yesterday of cancer or sepsis or flu or covid19 - it's why Twitter decides to censor such a comment made by Trump. Accurate or not - it is hardly dynamite. It illustrates the wider media agenda. Which started this.

It’s good to see you have finally seen the light and you now understand how much more serious than the flu COVID-19 really is.

In the meantime, we know just to ignore the hysterical hyperbolic bollocks published in the media warning us of flumaggedon, snowmageddon or whatever-mageddon. As I said before yong man, case closed !

Karol Kingsky wrote:
With regard to current (not historic) stats on flu and COVID-19 deaths, FullFact.Org say there is no evidence to support the claim that flu is (currently) killing more people than COVID-19. In fact, where the flu is mentioned as the “underlying” cause of death, there are almost certainly fewer deaths from it.

COVID-19 exceeds flu as the main cause of death given on death certificates currently being issued in England and Wales. Logically this means that it is DEFINITELY the more lethal of the two viruses. Case closed Ken.

See:- fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

Logically, this does NOT mean that covid is the more lethal of the two, because you are comparing a virus to which the vulnerable are already protected to a virus that the vulnerable are unprotected from.

To compare, we would have to either fully protect against both, or let both run freely.

Why do people who argue like this never address the real question: is our response to this virus (with all the harm the response causes) necessary and proportionate to its mortality rate?

Just for once, instead of having the kinds of views JK, Peter Hitchens, many and growing scientists, and Wyot! have totally mispresented, it would be useful for them to make the case without completely and conveniently ignoring the price being paid.....

They are happy to say we are heartless re the Covid deaths, but won't justify the deaths and harm from lockdown in any way.

Which you have to be prepared to do if you support it.

We deal with reality. We may be wrong; they may be correct, but are too cowardly to acknowledge the lockdown harm in their arguments.

They deal in zero sum fantasies.

Wrong. We are currently equally protected against both the flu and COVID-19 under the mask wearing, social distancing and lockdown measures. This season’s flu jabs haven’t been administered yet for a lot of people, probably because the likelihood of catching it has been greatly reduced with all the sanitary and distancing measures already in place. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are fewer colds caught this year either.

Wyot wrote:
Why do people who argue like this never address the real question: is our response to this virus (with all the harm the response causes) necessary and proportionate to its mortality rate?

Just for once, instead of having the kinds of views JK, Peter Hitchens, many and growing scientists, and Wyot! have totally mispresented, it would be useful for them to make the case without completely and conveniently ignoring the price being paid.....

They are happy to say we are heartless re the Covid deaths, but won't justify the deaths and harm from lockdown in any way.

Which you have to be prepared to do if you support it.

We deal with reality. We may be wrong; they may be correct, but are too cowardly to acknowledge the lockdown harm in their arguments.

They deal in zero sum fantasies.

For the greater good, let’s drastically increase the capacity of the NHS to deal with all of its patients, whether they be COVID related, cancer, hip ops or whatever. An extra 1p on the higher rates of income tax should fund it.

Karol Kingsky wrote:
Wyot wrote:
Why do people who argue like this never address the real question

For the greater good, let’s drastically increase the capacity of the NHS to deal with all of its patients, whether they be COVID related, cancer, hip ops or whatever. An extra 1p on the higher rates of income tax should fund it.

While it has nothing to do with the point I made, I am in agreement with your desire to improve the capacity of our health services KK.

Whether it should be income tax before corporation tax has been addressed, or wholly privately funded is a whole other topic...

Wyot wrote:
I am in agreement with your desire to improve the capacity of our health services

The generally efficient NHS, which costs about £2.5 billion a week, only needs improvement by weeding out patients.

Like the large amount of health tourists and the many who are simply ineligible. It's no wonder we have so many people trying to come here.

For example, before abortion was made legal in Ireland a few years ago, dozens of women travelled here every month for free terminations - at our expense.

Karol Kingsky wrote:
Wrong. We are currently equally protected against both the flu and COVID-19 under the mask wearing, social distancing and lockdown measures. This season’s flu jabs haven’t been administered yet for a lot of people, probably because the likelihood of catching it has been greatly reduced with all the sanitary and distancing measures already in place. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are fewer colds caught this year either.


You would think so, wouldn't you? But there is an "epidemic" of the common cold at the moment.
I had hoped it would be wiped out.

The masks most of us have are not terribly effective even when used correctly, and far less so when worn under the nose and chin.

Now the official figures are in for England and Wales, we know for certain that this year more people have died and will continue to do so of Coronavirus. What Twitter did earlier was to delete a statement that was factually untrue. What is factually true for the UK is bound to be true elsewhere.

Was this ever in doubt? It proves yet again that the pandemic was a panicdemic, induced by media inflation; just another new virus, not worthy of killing millions by over reaction.

middlemas wrote:
Wyot wrote:
I am in agreement with your desire to improve the capacity of our health services

The generally efficient NHS, which costs about £2.5 billion a week, only needs improvement by weeding out patients.

Like the large amount of health tourists and the many who are simply ineligible. It's no wonder we have so many people trying to come here.

For example, before abortion was made legal in Ireland a few years ago, dozens of women travelled here every month for free terminations - at our expense.

Murder the unborn you mean.

Honey wrote:
Karol Kingsky wrote:
Wrong. We are currently equally protected against both the flu and COVID-19 under the mask wearing, social distancing and lockdown measures. This season’s flu jabs haven’t been administered yet for a lot of people, probably because the likelihood of catching it has been greatly reduced with all the sanitary and distancing measures already in place. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are fewer colds caught this year either.


You would think so, wouldn't you? But there is an "epidemic" of the common cold at the moment.
I had hoped it would be wiped out.

The masks most of us have are not terribly effective even when used correctly, and far less so when worn under the nose and chin.

I can't have my nose covered up. A) It it makes me feel claustrophobic I'm a speccy and C) I can't breath properly.