What I find extraordinary is that punters - especially media - did not see the obvious. Trump would pretend not to sign the bill in the USA until "down to the wire" (like Boris with Brexit); then would grudgingly sign, giving a clear message that he would have given far larger sums to the voters. Just as he will grudgingly accept Biden as President (quite possibly after passing a pardon for any of his past crimes) so, if inclined, he can stand again in 4 years. Clear. Simples. Obvious.

But superficial society, unable now to see any shades of grey, only black or white, simply either love him or hate him. This should ensure a few million more will love him, especially when he capitalises on the disgruntled between 2021 and 2024, sniping from the sidelines.

I'm still far from a fan. Cannot stand his approach to immigration. Or to human life. Or his manipulation of the media. But I have hugely admired the fact that he took on the media and won, despite all their attempts to destroy him. He really won, again and again.

What I'd love to see in 2024 is him switching over to the Democrats to stand! That would really be hilarious. And very "Trump" (who never liked the stupid Republicans and doesn't like the stupid Democrats either).

Jeremy Corbyn could and should have learned a lot from Trump.

But we all should learn the most. Falling for simplistic images and extreme caricatures never works. Slogans and tabloid headlines should not run the globe.

It's called good buisness - don't sign anything without reading the form and make sure there are clauses in the contract.

In the 80's and 90's Trump was a Democrat.

And what will Trump do next?

Well I reckon first he'll pass Presidential legislation making sure he does not get prosecuted for anything (cleverly phrased, talking about "mistakes" rather than "crimes"); then he will effusively praise and back Biden, wishing him well, retracting any past insults against Biden or anyone else ("all in the spirit of battle"). He will graciously attend inauguration, possibly even hugging Biden. He will take a holiday. In due course he will issue numerous highly supportive tweets backing the new President. Then, as years pass, he will start to criticise, first specifically, then generally. And then he'll run in primaries, either as Democratic candidate or (as he did before) as an Independent (Democrat).

And the media will fall for it all again.

But I could be wrong.

Trump is an idiosyncratic outlandish mediocrity who had his chance - and has been replaced by the recipient of the most presidential votes in history.

A few economic successes, yes - but the focus was always on Trump himself. Not on the issues - at his nation's cost.

Reminiscent of the old white guy - on the front porch with his gun over his knee - castigating all those who don't fit into his distorted version of the world order.

So easy to visualise Clint Eastwood at his side.

Hopefully Trump's legacy will be a note to the US electorate - choose more wisely in future.

And recognise self-publicist/centered gigantic egos, for what they are.

Indeed Mal; your sarcasm and wit is terrific. Yes, this is exactly the kind of brain dead tabloid caricature most believe these days. And we appreciate your hidden point - that by getting more votes than any other successful Presidential candidate, you can fool most of the public most of the time. And, yes, most will never see shades of grey either. Well put - even if tongue in cheek.

Mal Even wrote:
Trump is an idiosyncratic outlandish mediocrity who had his chance - and has been replaced by the recipient of the most presidential votes in history.

A few economic successes, yes - but the focus was always on Trump himself. Not on the issues - at his nation's cost.

Reminiscent of the old white guy - on the front porch with his gun over his knee - castigating all those who don't fit into his distorted version of the world order.

So easy to visualise Clint Eastwood at his side.

Hopefully Trump's legacy will be a note to the US electorate - choose more wisely in future.

And recognise self-publicist/centered gigantic egos, for what they are.

Ok Barney.

The us economy is in its worst state since the second world war. Unemployment is sky high gdp is low. You will say, well this is because of Coronavirus. Exactly my point it was in a fairly good position before covid because of factors outside of the control of the government (e.g. no wars, new technologies, well run big businesses). Governments don't run economies

ALL economies are in an appalling state thanks to reactions to the media hype of Covid. Some (Sweden, South Korea, New Zealand) are suffering less than others.

robbiex wrote:
The us economy is in its worst state since the second world war. Unemployment is sky high gdp is low.


US GDP increased by 38% in the third quarter - with unemployment down 5% (to 6.7%) in the last 5 months.

In comparison, unemployment in the Eurozone is 8.4%. (South Africa has the highest - 30.8%).

Not as bad as you say, with the US economy growing at a fast rate - after absorbing the virus affects.

JK2006 wrote:
Falling for simplistic images and extreme caricatures never works. Slogans and tabloid headlines should not run the globe.

I do accept Trump is portrayed in one caricatured dimension by the liberal press, and also that I am biased against him and find it hard to pick out his achievements because of this stuff.

But surely simple slogans and extreme caricatures are also what Trump himself also excelled in - Mexicans, Women, any one who disagreed with his world view was a "baddie"...

Ah yes Wyot - it's what I admire Trump for; using media manipulation and simplification to beat the enemy. I've done it for years. Even Trump could never have turned Leap Up And Down Wave Your Knickers In The Air into a giant hit. Not that I was ever creatively justified in inflicting it upon an unsuspecting nation. Likewise, manipulating the media doesn't justify ordering executions, building walls, encouraging racism. But let's not be blind to the incredible success. Even in losing the latest election he managed to hype millions into voting for him. Stunning.

He was a master demagogue and also manipulated the media brilliantly to this end. Maybe it is my bias again, but whether - unlike you - he did this deliberately I am not so sure!

As for "Leap Around" - not had the pleasure of hearing it yet (or if I have I must have blocked it out...
) so will accept your views on its artistic merit

Nicola Sturgeon gets more Trumplike every day.


Leap up and down is a masterpiece and I shan't hear a word against it!

Every song is important to someone, I suppose.
As a child, I used to run alongside my best friend waving our handkerchiefs (in lieu of pants) and singing it at the top of our voices.

She died recently, and I had a quiet moment in the garden with a candle listening to the song.
It struck me how daft it must have looked.

no-one noticed because it's bullshit.

It could have been a tactic but it went down like a lead balloon.

Even worse- the Democrats indicated they would vote for the amount Trump claimed but now he's signed off on the lesser deal.

What sort of total loon would think Trump is brilliant because he claimed he wanted to give everyone a big sum of money but then he bottled it when the Democrats called his bluff.?

all Trump has done is make himself look even more foolish than he is and probably why the previous Trump supporting New York Post has told him basically to fuck right off (probably under orders from R.Murdoch)

His adoring fan base don't give a flying stuff what Trump says and does. Nothing he says increases or decreases their adoration.

Trump is the first Rock Star President but in 4 weeks he becomes yesterday's man.

And there will be no more Trump Hit Records or fabulous "live concerts" with his Greatest 20 Hits. No Trump rallies with 10,000s of screaming fans.. Trump is too old !. The Circus moves on and the media will as well. The Republicans will disengage as they need a new hero. An anti-Trump. Trump has never offered anything of interest to say in interviews so why would anyone interview him in the future.?

There will be perhaps millions who remain devoted to him (like Elvis or Michael Jackson) but that will dwindle over time because he leaves absolutely nothing of value for them to cling on to. Even they will need a New Star to worship.

Obama gains media because he's much younger but during his entire presidency not a peep was heard from George Bush Jnr as basically, no-one was interested. Trump is just the glittery celebrity version of Bush with nothing substantial to offer and..who the fuck remembers who last years winner of Dancing With Stars was?

JK should know better. He should know the media is a Fickle Mistress and the minute the gloss wears off you are toast. They need new glossy slebs every damned day and an aging orange faced bitter ex-president will not sell one single tabloid newspaper. No glorious Hello! style features. Nothing Nada Zip. And I guarantee he'll get really fat from January onward.

There will be no tours in 2021- no huge gatherings of starry eyed fans because the Trump gravy train ends on the 20th Jan.

JK isn't reading the wind here- Donal;d Trump has become a pain in the neck and everything he has done for months and now is just plain boring and annoying' Like the Tea Party (who?) before him he will fade away slowly. Age will quickly catch up to him. I even doubt there will be any court cases because the Establishment will decide it would be too undignified for an ex-US president to face a court.

No Airforce One to fly him to his "rock concerts" and he's not going to put his hand into his pocket to pay for one single venue to preach to 10,000s of deluded proles, 99% of whom he wouldn't let wash cars at Mar a Lago.

There will be no Trump TV- who starts a TV station at age 74 when it takes a decade (like Fox News) to build up an audience?. The right wing airwaves are already saturated and oddball outfits like Breitbart ( disturbing to find an old journo pal is now a manager there) preach to the converted like that Twitter type outfit Paler.

No, Trump's "brilliance is the opposite. It was a total blunder. The Trump Era is over. If he were 50 years old all manner of things would be possible but he's old !!. There will be no Trump 2024 Presidential bid, no Ivanka bid and by the looks of it, he 's not even allowed to live permanently at Mar a Lago so back to that ghastly golden glitter Trump Tower in NYC where the Trump name was persona not gratas before but is now hated.

It's all Over Rover. Trump was for a time..but not for all time !

Mal Even wrote:
robbiex wrote:
The us economy is in its worst state since the second world war. Unemployment is sky high gdp is low.


US GDP increased by 38% in the third quarter - with unemployment down 5% (to 6.7%) in the last 5 months.

In comparison, unemployment in the Eurozone is 8.4%. (South Africa has the highest - 30.8%).

Not as bad as you say, with the US economy growing at a fast rate - after absorbing the virus affects.

Still well below pre-covid levels. Why the increase, mainly because we now have a vaccine and people can plan for the future.

robbiex wrote:
Mal Even wrote:
robbiex wrote:
The us economy is in its worst state since the second world war. Unemployment is sky high gdp is low.


US GDP increased by 38% in the third quarter - with unemployment down 5% (to 6.7%) in the last 5 months.

In comparison, unemployment in the Eurozone is 8.4%. (South Africa has the highest - 30.8%).

Not as bad as you say, with the US economy growing at a fast rate - after absorbing the virus affects.

Still well below pre-covid levels. Why the increase, mainly because we now have a vaccine and people can plan for the future.

I wouldn't be too sure.

Containing the virus at the start-failed.

Lockdown-failed.

Providing PPE- failed. Some places are still waiting.

Nightingale hospitals- What fool builds a hospital you haven't got staff for?

Track and trace- useless.

Instant testing- more than half wrong.

So yes, I very much hope that the vaccine will be a great success, but I really wouldn't bank on it.

Within a few months, Trump will be old news. The new president will have bedded in and no one will care about what the last president thinks. I would be surprised if he lives to the next election. Two of this brothers have died, he's very overweight, he eats cheese burgers all the time. Genetically and in terms of his life style it doesn't look good for him, and what are the chances the republicans would re-pick a previously failed candidate.

Not really about Trump himself though is it?

It is about how he won and how he governed. How facts and the truth - never exalted concepts in politics I know - became completely irrelevant. Whether this was a one off or will change the whole culture is what matters....

robbiex wrote:
Within a few months, Trump will be old news. The new president will have bedded in and no one will care about what the last president thinks. I would be surprised if he lives to the next election. Two of this brothers have died, he's very overweight, he eats cheese burgers all the time. Genetically and in terms of his life style it doesn't look good for him, and what are the chances the republicans would re-pick a previously failed candidate.

I think he is looking pretty good on all the cheeseburgers, and he shook covid off easily, so his health cant be all that bad.

Grover Cleveland served twice

Franklin Delano Roosevelt died during his fourth term!


FDR was easily the best president - of the last century.