The solution for Afghanistan? Not negative (send in soldiers to kill people) but allow every country to develop society as it wishes but be positive as humanity and OPEN ALL BORDERS so people can choose where they want to live, love, work and grow.

It sounds to me like the Taliban are ghastly (do watch The Kite Runner) but many there want a Taliban country. Let them have it - it's not our business - but assist those who DON'T want to live under that regime to move elsewhere.

Just as we should all be assisting ROHINGA and BanglaDesh.

If, instead of wasting money on stupid, obvious donkeys like Nightingale hospitals, we spent money assisting those who want to move and live elsewhere, humanity would be in a much healthier state.
If, instead of making laws killing people (borders), we devoted funds to setting up welcoming settlements in willing countries, millions of lives would be saved, the world would become greener and healthier.

But the NOT IN MY BACKYARD selfish types will never allow it.

"Save the lives of people with slightly different skin colour? NEVER. Save the lives of those who believe in a different God? NEVER. Save the lives of future criminals? NEVER. Save the lives of sexual deviants? NEVER".

But opening the borders (which I am very much in favour of, in principal) IS a not in my back yard mentality, because the only people you would be "helping" are the ones rich enough, young enough, and fit enough to move countries, leaving poverty, hunger, and persecution behind, where presumably, those people can rot!

This is why the current immigration policy stinks. It only helps those who we can exploit.

The "boat people" are not wealthy Honey. All those fleeing across the Mediterranean are not wealthy Honey. Most of the Rohinga are not wealthy. Most Afghans wishing to flee the Taliban have no money. That's why they flee to Kabul; they cannot afford to flee the country. If a neighbouring country were to offer sanctuary in return for enormous subsidies from us Western millionaires to set up calm, secure, healthy, potential sites (as Bangla Desh seems to be doing with that Island - but I think we should assist there too).

Just to be clear I'm not advocating people fleeing a far away regime trying to come to the UK. Without funds the most they can hope for is to move next door - to a sympathetic neighbouring country who will support and encourage them and give them the means to live happily. "Neighbouring countries won't do it", you'll answer. They will if they get enough sponsored subsidies (well policed, naturally).

JK2006 wrote:
The "boat people" are not wealthy Honey. All those fleeing across the Mediterranean are not wealthy Honey. Most of the Rohinga are not wealthy. Most Afghans wishing to flee the Taliban have no money. That's why they flee to Kabul; they cannot afford to flee the country. If a neighbouring country were to offer sanctuary in return for enormous subsidies from us Western millionaires to set up calm, secure, healthy, potential sites (as Bangla Desh seems to be doing with that Island - but I think we should assist there too).

The boat people are a damned sight wealthier than the ones left behind.

They are more than welcome in my eyes, but the ones who are poor, sick, old, downtrodden etc even more so.


It is not helping people to pick off the youngest and healthiest and most hard working. It is only helping yourself and giving you the satisfaction of the illusion of being inclusive.

("Yourself" being the country in general)

It's about realising our common humanity - we are all linked. The plight of Afghanistan is ours too. It applies to everything: treat prisoners with dignity and respect, they will be released some day and you don't want them more likely to reoffend on release. It is not even about "doing the right thing" it is actually about enlightened self-interest. But so few people seem to be able to see the dots, let alone join them, and just rock along in their zone of self-interest...

we blew these places up..we have to look after the people.

JK2006 wrote:
The "boat people" are not wealthy Honey. All those fleeing across the Mediterranean are not wealthy Honey. Most of the Rohinga are not wealthy. Most Afghans wishing to flee the Taliban have no money. That's why they flee to Kabul; they cannot afford to flee the country. If a neighbouring country were to offer sanctuary in return for enormous subsidies from us Western millionaires to set up calm, secure, healthy, potential sites (as Bangla Desh seems to be doing with that Island - but I think we should assist there too).

Sadly the neighbouring countries have their own issues. My father went to Afghanistan in the 1960's. He absolutely loved it there. The Afghans admired Western culture and records shops were everywhere along with b, women showed flesh but were always respectful to their bodies. Hospitality was very welcoming.


People are scared of Islam ideology and we can see why of course. Turkmenistan has come a long way in the last 20 years or so.

You have to remember how Taliban treat women and children it's not a life for them. Again why should we send more aid money, it seems to make zero difference and it goes on vanity projects like Space programmes.

Turkmenistan seems to be a realistic place to seek asylum but again would they be letting in Taliban members without knowing it ?

Green Man wrote:
[quote]JK2006 wrote:


Turkmenistan seems to be a realistic place to seek asylum but again would they be letting in Taliban members without knowing it ?

What we should be doing for anyone who now wishes to leave Afghanistan because of the horrors we have created, is to offer them safe passage to the UK/US funded and facilitated by us. In an ideal world, other countries would offer too a haven and refuge. If we can afford to launch billions of pounds of artillery at their country we can afford to do this; and if we can't that is our problem not theirs. The millions that protested against the war should mobilise and demand that our morally vacuous leaders grow up and take responsibility for their actions.

hedda wrote:
we blew these places up..we have to look after the people.
Wyot wrote:
What we should be doing for anyone who now wishes to leave Afghanistan because of the horrors we have created, is to offer them safe passage to the UK/US funded and facilitated by us. In an ideal world, other countries would offer too a haven and refuge. If we can afford to launch billions of pounds of artillery at their country we can afford to do this; and if we can't that is our problem not theirs. The millions that protested against the war should mobilise and demand that our morally vacuous leaders grow up and take responsibility for their actions.
Fully agree.

Sadly I suspect that if there's a new wave of Afghan refugees coming to Europe as a result of this it will stoke resentment and strengthen support for the far right (e.g. Marine Le Pen, AfD, hardline Conservatives).

Jo wrote:
Sadly I suspect that if there's a new wave of Afghan refugees coming to Europe as a result of this it will stoke resentment and strengthen support for the far right (e.g. Marine Le Pen, AfD, hardline Conservatives).

Yes I agree it will almost inevitably do so because across humanity in general there is a massive deficit in empathy, compassion & enlightened self-interest. It is all too easy to predict how the majority will react to any situation and manipulate them; whether political parties or the media.

Wyot wrote:
[quote]Green Man wrote:
JK2006 wrote:


Turkmenistan seems to be a realistic place to seek asylum but again would they be letting in Taliban members without knowing it ?

What we should be doing for anyone who now wishes to leave Afghanistan because of the horrors we have created, is to offer them safe passage to the UK/US funded and facilitated by us. In an ideal world, other countries would offer too a haven and refuge. If we can afford to launch billions of pounds of artillery at their country we can afford to do this; and if we can't that is our problem not theirs. The millions that protested against the war should mobilise and demand that our morally vacuous leaders grow up and take responsibility for their actions.

Maybe they should live with George Bush and Tony Blair.

The link between Biden's calamitous decision to suddenly withdraw from Afghanistan, the Plymouth shootings & Covid? The inability to hold apparantly contradictory thoughts in one head. Getting out of Afghanistan is "good" yes Joe we should never have been there, of course. But we were also preventing civil war and being there was also "good". We need to think harder about this situation. Plymouth gunman has done a terrible thing but has also been terribly let down. We need to think harder about this situation. Covid can kill people but is also benign. We need to think harder about this situation. But increasingly we can't; we respond not to reality, but our cognitive biases. The disjoin is dangerous and in all the cases above calamitous.

Speaking of heads.....

Green Man wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
Green Man wrote:
JK2006 wrote:


Turkmenistan seems to be a realistic place to seek asylum but again would they be letting in Taliban members without knowing it ?

What we should be doing for anyone who now wishes to leave Afghanistan because of the horrors we have created, is to offer them safe passage to the UK/US funded and facilitated by us. In an ideal world, other countries would offer too a haven and refuge. If we can afford to launch billions of pounds of artillery at their country we can afford to do this; and if we can't that is our problem not theirs. The millions that protested against the war should mobilise and demand that our morally vacuous leaders grow up and take responsibility for their actions.

Maybe they should live with George Bush and Tony Blair.

Don't you think they have been through enough already?