Wyot wrote:
robbiex wrote:


If you want to drive on the roads, you have to have a driving licence to ensure that you are safe to drive on the roads, it is the same principle with vaccine passports.



No it isn't Robbie.

One can not have Covid and not have a vaccine passport. One can have a vaccine passport and have Covid. It is not the same principle at all, and ensures nothing.

Yes and there can be very good drivers who don't have a licence, and very bad drivers that do have a licence. However it is much more likely that you are a better driver and safer on the road, if you passed a test to display your skills.

Wyot wrote:
robbiex wrote:


If you want to drive on the roads, you have to have a driving licence to ensure that you are safe to drive on the roads, it is the same principle with vaccine passports.



No it isn't Robbie.

One can not have Covid and not have a vaccine passport. One can have a vaccine passport and have Covid. It is not the same principle at all, and ensures nothing.

You are correct Wyot.

My drivers licence is full and valid and has been for 30 years. The Covid jabs are still at their provisional stage.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-set-to-ha...say-experts-12492031

I don't know why there is so much fuss about introducing vaccine passports. In my experience theatres and sports events have been requiring vaccine passports throughout the summer. The only difference seems to be in nightclubs where I would guess most people on this site haven't been to for years. It takes approximately 20 seconds to show a vaccine pass on your mobile. The bigger worry should be how the government and businesses are trying to outlaw the use of cash. Many businesses have now stopped allowing cash or reducing the ability to pay by cash. Cash is the only way of paying for things without been tracked. Your buying habits could be sold to insurance companies and your premiums ramped up. The idea that people are catching covid from touching money has been debunked a long time ago.

robbiex wrote:
Wyot wrote:
robbiex wrote:


If you want to drive on the roads, you have to have a driving licence to ensure that you are safe to drive on the roads, it is the same principle with vaccine passports.



No it isn't Robbie.

One can not have Covid and not have a vaccine passport. One can have a vaccine passport and have Covid. It is not the same principle at all, and ensures nothing.

Yes and there can be very good drivers who don't have a licence, and very bad drivers that do have a licence. However it is much more likely that you are a better driver and safer on the road, if you passed a test to display your skills.

But Robbie you are using language like "ensure" (clearly completely inaccurate) and "much more likely". The science is clear that vaccines come nowhere near this level in reducing infections.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

The effect is marginal, at best.

I know people want to feel safe and in control of their lives (this is natural) but the best way to do this is put the virus in context (0.5% death rate) rather than contort what we know about viruses to meet political - not scientific - ends.

robbiex wrote:
I don't know why there is so much fuss about introducing vaccine passports. In my experience theatres and sports events have been requiring vaccine passports throughout the summer. The only difference seems to be in nightclubs where I would guess most people on this site haven't been to for years. It takes approximately 20 seconds to show a vaccine pass on your mobile. The bigger worry should be how the government and businesses are trying to outlaw the use of cash. Many businesses have now stopped allowing cash or reducing the ability to pay by cash. Cash is the only way of paying for things without been tracked. Your buying habits could be sold to insurance companies and your premiums ramped up. The idea that people are catching covid from touching money has been debunked a long time ago.

I use CASH all the time never been refused even when we had the 3 lockdowns. I went to the theatre with my partner in August never had to show a Covid pass. I don't even own a smartphone because I don't need one, I rather call up contacts and my contacts know they need to call me. When I am driving the phone is switched off and shoved in the glove box and sometimes it's left there until the next morning.

I caught Covid like millions of others of people in the UK and recovered (must be our immune systems doing their job). I am still here, I am not in my 80's, overweight. I am not a heavy smoker or drinker light smoking of cigars and few drinks at my poker nights.

My partner gives me a Face Time call when I am doing my invoicing in the evenings.

he Sunflower exemption lanyard's remind of the Yellow Star that the poor Jews were forced to wear during the Holocaust and in the ghettos and Covid passes remind me Nazis.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please



Now I must leave for work.

robbiex wrote:
I don't know why there is so much fuss about introducing vaccine passports. In my experience theatres and sports events have been requiring vaccine passports throughout the summer. The only difference seems to be in nightclubs where I would guess most people on this site haven't been to for years. It takes approximately 20 seconds to show a vaccine pass on your mobile. The bigger worry should be how the government and businesses are trying to outlaw the use of cash. Many businesses have now stopped allowing cash or reducing the ability to pay by cash. Cash is the only way of paying for things without been tracked. Your buying habits could be sold to insurance companies and your premiums ramped up. The idea that people are catching covid from touching money has been debunked a long time ago.

It is not about convenience. Its about human rights and decency.

Honey wrote:
[quote]robbiex wrote:


It is not about convenience. Its about human rights and decency.

Well said Honey. You don't start by saying why not when your freedoms and privacy are compromised you start with why? And there needs to be a bloody good reason. If Covid was ebola there would be, but it isn't, and there isn't. End of.

It horrifies me that people can be so blase about giving the state control of their freedom. Do they not understand that it will never end with just this? We have hundreds of years of history behind us to get to this point.

Honey wrote:
robbiex wrote:
I don't know why there is so much fuss about introducing vaccine passports. In my experience theatres and sports events have been requiring vaccine passports throughout the summer. The only difference seems to be in nightclubs where I would guess most people on this site haven't been to for years. It takes approximately 20 seconds to show a vaccine pass on your mobile. The bigger worry should be how the government and businesses are trying to outlaw the use of cash. Many businesses have now stopped allowing cash or reducing the ability to pay by cash. Cash is the only way of paying for things without been tracked. Your buying habits could be sold to insurance companies and your premiums ramped up. The idea that people are catching covid from touching money has been debunked a long time ago.

It is not about convenience. Its about human rights and decency.

Bingo!!

Vaccine passports prevent mass infection and stops the NHS being overwhelmed by Adele fans?

But if this is the case, why do they have to close all the nightclubs in Wales, when they were already using the passports?

Honey wrote:
Vaccine passports prevent mass infection and stops the NHS being overwhelmed by Adele fans?

But if this is the case, why do they have to close all the nightclubs in Wales, when they were already using the passports?

I told you this months ago.

Green Man wrote:
Honey wrote:
Vaccine passports prevent mass infection and stops the NHS being overwhelmed by Adele fans?

But if this is the case, why do they have to close all the nightclubs in Wales, when they were already using the passports?

I told you this months ago.

Interesting how we all read different things into the ongoing incoherence.

For me, vaccine passports are a way to try and force people to get vaccinated to reduce serious illness (NHS capacity) & death.

They make no sense in terms of transmission but are intended to make life difficult for those resisting. Our leaders are disingenuous , to say the least, about why they are implementing them. But I see no reason to fear some great state plan of control. Control what? Why?

I'm standing outside the Jab centre having just had the booster. Pfizer on top of AZ so I have to wait 15 mins to see if I collapse...

As you know WYOT I'm a vaccine fan but was pleased to get the Pfizer throughout and worried that the AZ was not tested on anyone over 60 - surely the main real vulnerable category. James (my assistant) got very ill after BOTH AZ doses and now refuses to have the Pfizer booster.

JK2006 wrote:
As you know WYOT I'm a vaccine fan but was pleased to get the Pfizer throughout and worried that the AZ was not tested on anyone over 60 - surely the main real vulnerable category. James (my assistant) got very ill after BOTH AZ doses and now refuses to have the Pfizer booster.

From what I have read I am glad I just had Pfizer as it appears to be (slightly) more effective than AZ. I was in bed for a day after my first AZ with flu like symptoms, but was fine 2nd time. I have read that more people are feeling rotten with mixing Pfizer booster with AZ. If I am quiet for a few days you all know why!

Honey wrote:
please explain to me how it will stop people being infected.

I am now sufficiently gaslighted to be wondering if I have missed something.

If the actual chief medical officer tells us that vaccinations don't stop infection or transmission, why is everyone ignoring what he is saying?

I think you are missing the point..unless passports work differently in the UK but Australia copied it..they are just relaxing the need to check in the last week (except Beauty Salons which is of concern to me as I need to book my annual Ready Mix Concrete facial ) ..it's driven me potty over the last year checking in when it often works badly but the point is..I have had 2 alerts afterwards stating that a Covid wracked person was in the store at the same time as me so..it's recommended I get a Covid test.

Nothing more.

Sounds sensible.

Unless the "vaccine passport" on my smart phone combines with the Bill Gates / Freemasons 2 jabs / chips I've had and somewhere in a bunker the Powers That be will say..he's a Useless Eater and throw a switch at which time I drop down Brown Bread to be scooped up and remade into Soylent Green (I'd be more than happy with that..blended into a lovely stew for the others to dine on )

nursie hedda wrote:
Honey wrote:
please explain to me how it will stop people being infected.

I am now sufficiently gaslighted to be wondering if I have missed something.

If the actual chief medical officer tells us that vaccinations don't stop infection or transmission, why is everyone ignoring what he is saying?

I think you are missing the point..unless passports work differently in the UK but Australia copied it..they are just relaxing the need to check in the last week (except Beauty Salons which is of concern to me as I need to book my annual Ready Mix Concrete facial ) ..it's driven me potty over the last year checking in when it often works badly but the point is..I have had 2 alerts afterwards stating that a Covid wracked person was in the store at the same time as me so..it's recommended I get a Covid test.

Nothing more.

Sounds sensible.

Unless the "vaccine passport" on my smart phone combines with the Bill Gates / Freemasons 2 jabs / chips I've had and somewhere in a bunker the Powers That be will say..he's a Useless Eater and throw a switch at which time I drop down Brown Bread to be scooped up and remade into Soylent Green (I'd be more than happy with that..blended into a lovely stew for the others to dine on )

Vaccine passports here as Honey means it is confirmation you have been vaccinated otherwise you are barred from going into places or even working in some areas. As the vaccinated spread Covid - and our chief medical officer agrees with this - as much as anyone else - what is the point of them?

The only point I can see is to bully people into being vaccinated by making their lives bloody difficult if they don't. So the NHS is not overwhelmed; which means political death. Period.

Wyot wrote:
JK2006 wrote:
As you know WYOT I'm a vaccine fan but was pleased to get the Pfizer throughout and worried that the AZ was not tested on anyone over 60 - surely the main real vulnerable category. James (my assistant) got very ill after BOTH AZ doses and now refuses to have the Pfizer booster.

From what I have read I am glad I just had Pfizer as it appears to be (slightly) more effective than AZ. I was in bed for a day after my first AZ with flu like symptoms, but was fine 2nd time. I have read that more people are feeling rotten with mixing Pfizer booster with AZ. If I am quiet for a few days you all know why!

I think they stopped the fifteen minute wait to speed things up?

I am thoroughly fed up to find that after three flaming vaxes, each causing huge skin/joint flare up, only to find that AstraZenica is completely and utterly useless against Omicron so I am back to square one.

Honey wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
[quote]JK2006 wrote:


I think they stopped the fifteen minute wait to speed things up?

I am thoroughly fed up to find that after three flaming vaxes, each causing huge skin/joint flare up, only to find that AstraZenica is completely and utterly useless against Omicron so I am back to square one.

Funnily enough they had to call a hurried meeting to clarify what they were doing (I was one of the first of the day). The doc told me I had to wait 15 mins, the "jabber" said I didn't. They avoided back up by getting us to wait outside the building...

Sorry to hear you suffer with your flare ups Honey but you haven't wasted your time - 70% protection is not inconsiderable:

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/omicro...na-b1978612.html?amp

12 hours now and no reaction to my Pfizer; fingers crossed...

Wyot wrote:
[quote]Honey wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
JK2006 wrote:


I think they stopped the fifteen minute wait to speed things up?

I am thoroughly fed up to find that after three flaming vaxes, each causing huge skin/joint flare up, only to find that AstraZenica is completely and utterly useless against Omicron so I am back to square one.

Funnily enough they had to call a hurried meeting to clarify what they were doing (I was one of the first of the day). The doc told me I had to wait 15 mins, the "jabber" said I didn't. They avoided back up by getting us to wait outside the building...

Sorry to hear you suffer with your flare ups Honey but you haven't wasted your time - 70% protection is not inconsiderable:

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/omicro...na-b1978612.html?amp

12 hours now and no reaction to my Pfizer; fingers crossed...

The 70 percent is for the old variety, not Omicron, which will have taken over completely in a week or two.
They say Omicron produces "almost undetectable" antibodies in those who have only had AstraZenica.

I have no idea why Pfizer chose to include one of the most common skin allergens, (used in cosmetics and skin care) and why medical staff have no information about skin sensitivities/reactions/allergies and Pfizer at all. (other than refusing to give it to you)

Are the thousands of people allergic to "Peg 30" perfectly ok because it doesn't affect you in the same way if you are injected?
Or are those the people who have become very unwell and worse?

I am very sure that most people have not looked at the vax ingredients beforehand, and the question they ask before they inject you is not "are you allergic to anything in the Pfizer" but "do you have any allergies?"

You might not even know which bit of the mascara made your eyes puff up like golf balls.
You just don't buy it again.

Honey wrote:
the question they ask before they inject you is not "are you allergic to anything in the Pfizer" but "do you have any allergies?"


Because few will know the answer to the first question. And the answer to the second easier question provides the answer to the first.

Honey wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
[quote]Honey wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
JK2006 wrote:




The 70 percent is for the old variety, not Omicron, which will have taken over completely in a week or two.
They say Omicron produces "almost undetectable" antibodies

Yep you are correct Honey; I have only caught up on all that this morning. And seems to apply to all prior vaccines. Mind you, the report I saw comes from that prophet of doom (and is not yet peer reviewed) Prof Ferguson. Given his track record who knows...!