www.bbc.co.uk/news/14864411

This is just the beginning,I travel and work out there,and the mood on the street is out for revenge.
Cameron and co have started something they know little about,and it is getting beyond their ability to control.

I so agree SE as you know. And I blame the Internet. Facebook, Twitter, Blackberry - the voice of the people is being heard and some of it is very ugly - riots in London have a great deal in common with Arab Spring and Cameron being delighted to murder innocent Libyans will come back to haunt us all.

Amazing reading John Pilger's articles to realise the USA (with UK help) has invaded 30 countries to date and dropped bombs on the civilians of 50.

It seems they will learn nothing from the horror of 9/11 and turn it into a great navel gazing event.

It started well before Cameron..Thatcher, Blair (Major not so much) but the way politicians today come across as not much better than used car salesmen is disturbing yet they are far deadlier than the Arthur Daley's of the world.

Consider the mixed messages Cameron alone has issued in recent times..."everyone deserves a second chance" ( about Coulson).."we all do things we regret when young" (Bullingdon Club) yet rioters and looters (thuggish as they are) are not allowed an inch.


seemingly oblivious that the lower orders will not take all that in.

veritas wrote:
Amazing reading John Pilger's articles to realise the USA (with UK help) has invaded 30 countries to date and dropped bombs on the civilians of 50.

It seems they will learn nothing from the horror of 9/11 and turn it into a great navel gazing event.

It started well before Cameron..Thatcher, Blair (Major not so much) but the way politicians today come across as not much better than used car salesmen is disturbing yet they are far deadlier than the Arthur Daley's of the world.

Consider the mixed messages Cameron alone has issued in recent times..."everyone deserves a second chance" ( about Coulson).."we all do things we regret when young" (Bullingdon Club) yet rioters and looters (thuggish as they are) are not allowed an inch.


seemingly oblivious that the lower orders will not take all that in.

Yes veritas an interesting comment.

About the second chance,we always must leave the door open.Also realise that those born at the bottom need more help to rise up than toffs...but wile we may easily rehabilitate those who got swept up in events,there are a hardcore element that need to be both deterred and punished.

"...wile we may easily rehabilitate those who got swept up in events,there are a hardcore element that need to be both deterred and punished."

There certainly is a hardcore for whom the concept of "rehabilitation" will be a very tough cookie indeed. But those who took part in the riots should not be simply bundled together and treated as if they are all exactly the same {there is no "feral underclass", just a disparate and very large group of people who see themselves as having been failed - rightly or wrongly - by those who govern or otherwise influence society as a whole}.

They're not all the the same. So what's to be done?

As I see it we must judge on a case-by-case basis. Can the accused be reformed? Can the accused be rehabilitated? Can the accused be inspired to improve and realise the potential that he or she as a sentient human being most definitely has?

It would take time {too much, I fear, for those who want instant justice - whatever "justice" means for them}.

And it would take a lot of money {that might otherwise be spent on delivering various pieces of ordnance to militarily strategic targets like weddings in parts of the world we'd like to make more safe for McDonalds to trade into}.

Those influential people who govern, inform and generally shape that which we mirthfully refer to as "society" have set an example that has been followed by many disaffected people in the only way they knew how.

They've gone out, as they've been encouraged to, and acquired.

Not by fucking up a huge semi-global financial market and causing the ruin of millions of completely honest people, but by a much less damaging {and much shorter term} path. Those who are responsible for creating this "feral underclass" should commit the time and stump up the ackers to make good their failures. And, in doing so, they might begin repaying their own debts to society. Not all of those accused of being part of a "feral underclass" have something to give. But I'm willing to bet that a large number of them do.

Just a pity that I'm pipe dreaming. Things will never improve. Because those for whom decency and an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an alien concept are to be found at both ends of the social spectrum. But only one side is going to get clobbered. Ever. This isn't civilisation. Civilisation looks after its prisoners. And it doesn't turn that majority who might so easily be inspired into productive, useful, benevolent lives into nothing more or less than hardened and fully confirmed criminals-for-life.

The rioters failed in their civic duty, that's for sure. But that they had been themselves been subjected to a greater failure of society for years is something that should, perhaps, be remembered by anyone who has the duty of visiting justice upon their unfortunate heads.

You really cant help yourselves, can you?

NOW that you have finally accepted that Gaddafi has been defeated I'm expecting a Bring Back Gaddafi thread any minute !

It will take decades for the Arab Spring revolution to settle ... they have no experience at all of democracy, in fact in Libya's case they have no institutions capable of actually organising a democracy.

Its taken 1000 years for the Mother Parliament to reach where it has now ... I think we should give all the help we can and let this develop (at their pace) into what they want.

(... is that a Bring Back Gaddafi post I hear being typed? ...)

Oh don't worry ITK, it will come; there are some who would like to return the Shah to Iran as they don't like the current Iranian regime. Indeed, soon some may beg for Blair to return when they go off Spoonface. Even I am beginning to think perhaps Alistair Darling was better than Georgie Porgie.

But I don't think many will urge our tax monies to be spent killing the opposition - unless there's oil in it for us.

In The Know wrote:
You really cant help yourselves, can you?

NOW that you have finally accepted that Gaddafi has been defeated I'm expecting a Bring Back Gaddafi thread any minute !

It will take decades for the Arab Spring revolution to settle ... they have no experience at all of democracy, in fact in Libya's case they have no institutions capable of actually organising a democracy.

Its taken 1000 years for the Mother Parliament to reach where it has now ... I think we should give all the help we can and let this develop (at their pace) into what they want.

(... is that a Bring Back Gaddafi post I hear being typed? ...)

No ITK you really can't help yourself from using the phrase 'You really cant help yourselves, can you?'

Oh and yes,you really can't help yourself from pontificating on things you have no idea of,because you simply never get any closer to these places than a copy of The Sun over a pint in your local.

Solihull Exile wrote:
In The Know wrote:
You really cant help yourselves, can you?

NOW that you have finally accepted that Gaddafi has been defeated I'm expecting a Bring Back Gaddafi thread any minute !

It will take decades for the Arab Spring revolution to settle ... they have no experience at all of democracy, in fact in Libya's case they have no institutions capable of actually organising a democracy.

Its taken 1000 years for the Mother Parliament to reach where it has now ... I think we should give all the help we can and let this develop (at their pace) into what they want.

(... is that a Bring Back Gaddafi post I hear being typed? ...)

No ITK you really can't help yourself from using the phrase 'You really cant help yourselves, can you?'

Oh and yes,you really can't help yourself from pontificating on things you have no idea of,because you simply never get any closer to these places than a copy of The Sun over a pint in your local.

Hilarious but oh so true SE

Who in their right minds would make up so much rubbish,from their own backyard?