At 11 o'clock today let's remember all those innocent men, women and children who have died because someone decided to kill them; whether it was for the best reasons or by mistake, whether it was intentional or accidental; whether it was for "regime change" or to "protect them from being killed"... and, yes, whether they genuinely believed they were doing good or whether they wanted an excuse to murder someone legally.

Let's all think for ourselves.

Hear hear. I don't do the poppy thing, and I would never kill anyone, least of all for King/ Queen or country or state. Remember the British soldiers, but we should all remember the rest too, which is why I feel Remembrance weekend is a little hypocritical. Let's also remember the thousands of young German soldiers who suffered in WW1. And let's remember the hundreds of thousands massacred in Hiroshima, Nagasaki. Let's remember too the hundreds who perished in Dresden.Most of the buildings and homes were made of wood and it went up like a tinderbox, people were literally incinerated.

I have no problem with anyone remembering the dead. I have a huge problem with people feeling they need to do it in public and with some kind of symbol. Why? If you answer Why not? I answer "because it says more to me about people wanting others to notice them for whatever reason than about genuine caring". But I could be wrong. It may be that most people are unable to care unless prompted and allowed to get noticed.

Why don't you mind your own fucking nusiness?

Do I think everyone should be allowed to wear (or burn) poppies? Absolutely. Do I think everyone is entitled to have an opinion on poppies? Absolutely. Do I think most people wear poppies for genuine reasons? Probably many do but most don't think about it at all. Does it matter? Not a lot.

I have always felt that wearing a poppy is out of respectability...not for the dead, but for the wearer. The wearer feels better about themselves. Surely not the idea. I respect people if I believe they are mostly decent, kind, humane, with or without towing the line and wearing a poppy on their lapel. Tony Blair wore a poppy too, shortly after embarking on death and destruction in Iraq. It's the hypocrisy I cannot stomach.

Plenty of poppy wearing assholes about today I'm sure.

JK2006 wrote:
I have no problem with anyone remembering the dead. I have a huge problem with people feeling they need to do it in public and with some kind of symbol. Why? If you answer Why not? I answer "because it says more to me about people wanting others to notice them for whatever reason than about genuine caring". But I could be wrong. It may be that most people are unable to care unless prompted and allowed to get noticed.

I don't agree with all your opinions, but am with you on every word here.

I buy a red poppy every year. I like to believe that if any of my local shops had the courage to sell white ones I'd have the courage to wear one. Whether I would or not is something the jury's still out on.

War {and remember I speak as a pacifist} isn't just about killing. There is a balance to be struck between those who give {please note the tense here, it's deliberate} their lives and those who take them. We must always remember dear old Harry Patch who, while being willing to give his own life, was unable to take another's. That is courage we can all admire. I'm sure that the fields of Flanders still hold the bodies of many such men. And we must never forget the medics, those men who were prepared to die {and many did} to help others. Those who died did so unarmed. And those who survived carried the horror of the things they saw with them for the rest of their lives. When I was a kid the Haig Fund was more about the care of these men than anything else, and much more has changed about Remembrance Day than simply that.

Remembrance Day isn't, for me, a time to celebrate the glory of military death. I see no glory in that alone, although I have little doubt that many others do. Neither is it a day when it should be necessary to wear a poppy. Keeping quiet for two minutes, however, costs nothing and makes little outward show.

11 o'clock on the 11th of November is a time to remember and pay respects to those who gave. And there has been enough giving for it to apply to even a cynical old pacifist like me. And it behooves me to abandon my usual colour scheme just this once.

The Fat Controller wrote:
I have always felt that wearing a poppy is out of respectability...not for the dead, but for the wearer. The wearer feels better about themselves. Surely not the idea. I respect people if I believe they are mostly decent, kind, humane, with or without towing the line and wearing a poppy on their lapel. Tony Blair wore a poppy too, shortly after embarking on death and destruction in Iraq. It's the hypocrisy I cannot stomach.

Plenty of poppy wearing assholes about today I'm sure.

Not one to generalise then?

angel wrote:
The Fat Controller wrote:
I have always felt that wearing a poppy is out of respectability...not for the dead, but for the wearer. The wearer feels better about themselves. Surely not the idea. I respect people if I believe they are mostly decent, kind, humane, with or without towing the line and wearing a poppy on their lapel. Tony Blair wore a poppy too, shortly after embarking on death and destruction in Iraq. It's the hypocrisy I cannot stomach.

Plenty of poppy wearing assholes about today I'm sure.

Not one to generalise then?

Dry,very dry