I'm really looking forward to when the United Nations unilaterally support the Tottenham rioters in their struggle against Spoonface and their battle to bring Democracy to this beknighted land!

We've been left with little choice.

We either do nothing - and let the barbarians get on with the slaughter like prehistoric morons, or else we take some action.

For those who say "but Russia is Syria's ally" .... remember, they were also Saddam's ally - but stood totally aside when we made it clear we were going in.

These peoples have suffered enough (mainly from our siding with the despots that were repressing them !) - our credibility in much of the world (after Iraq and Afghanistan) has been restored by the way the West has helped the people in the Arab Spring.

If the tyrant wont get out of the way - LETS REMOVE HIM !

(I wonder if he saw what happened to Gaddafi???)

JK2006 wrote:
I'm really looking forward to when the United Nations unilaterally support the Tottenham rioters in their struggle against Spoonface and their battle to bring Democracy to this beknighted land!

If intervention worked I'd support it,but when the interventionists are responsible for many more deaths than those they're calling to remove then it's no surprise other nations do not support it.

In The Know wrote:


For those who say "but Russia is Syria's ally" .... remember, they were also Saddam's ally


And so were we, for many years. Until it didn't 'suit' us any more.

We are also allies with the brutal Saudi dictatorship. Interestingly, not long ago Cameron went to visit his Saudi chums to discuss arms deals, but contrary to custom didn't take any press with him. I wonder why.

We're very selective about which dictatorships we condemn and which we support, aren't we?

david wrote:
And so were we, for many years. Until it didn't 'suit' us any more.

We are also allies with the brutal Saudi dictatorship. Interestingly, not long ago Cameron went to visit his Saudi chums to discuss arms deals, but contrary to custom didn't take any press with him. I wonder why.

We're very selective about which dictatorships we condemn and which we support, aren't we?

Yes ... we are.

But in defence the Saudi people are not rising up, are they?
They are not putting themselves in harm's way because they would rather die than continue under repression, are they (yet?)

If you don't send out the right message - you only embolden the oppressor -
Syria Steps Up Homs Bombing - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16902819

In The Know wrote:


But in defence the Saudi people are not rising up, are they?
They are not putting themselves in harm's way because they would rather die than continue under repression, are they (yet?)

If you don't send out the right message - you only embolden the oppressor -
Syria Steps Up Homs Bombing - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16902819

True, they aren't rising up yet. But I'm not going to tell people who are probably in fear of their lives whether they should or shouldn't put their themselves and their families at risk by demonstrating. That is a terrible dilemma that we can hardly imagine.

What I am talking about is the rank hypocrisy of Cameron's government in crowing so loudly about democracy during the Libyan civil war, and then happily going off to sell arms to his profoundly undemocratic Saudi friends, while making very sure he leaves the press behind.

david wrote:
True, they aren't rising up yet. But I'm not going to tell people who are probably in fear of their lives whether they should or shouldn't put their themselves and their families at risk by demonstrating. That is a terrible dilemma that we can hardly imagine.

What I am talking about is the rank hypocrisy of Cameron's government in crowing so loudly about democracy during the Libyan civil war, and then happily going off to sell arms to his profoundly undemocratic Saudi friends, while making very sure he leaves the press behind.

I think you are confusing two entirely different issues, david.

Who are WE to tell the Saudi people who should represent them?
They "seem" happy at the moment, thats all I'm saying.

With both Libya and now Syria, the people are making it clear that they want a new form of government - and in both cases those governments are prepared to kill their own people as a further form of repression (in order, lets be honest, to save their own skins).

It would be inhumane and heartless to not respond to a plea for help by these people.
On the other hand, to intervene (when the people have not even asked for it) in Saudi would be simple regime change (because WE didn't like their rulers).

In The Know wrote:
david wrote:
True, they aren't rising up yet. But I'm not going to tell people who are probably in fear of their lives whether they should or shouldn't put their themselves and their families at risk by demonstrating. That is a terrible dilemma that we can hardly imagine.

What I am talking about is the rank hypocrisy of Cameron's government in crowing so loudly about democracy during the Libyan civil war, and then happily going off to sell arms to his profoundly undemocratic Saudi friends, while making very sure he leaves the press behind.

I think you are confusing two entirely different issues, david.

Who are WE to tell the Saudi people who should represent them?
They "seem" happy at the moment, thats all I'm saying.

With both Libya and now Syria, the people are making it clear that they want a new form of government - and in both cases those governments are prepared to kill their own people as a further form of repression (in order, lets be honest, to save their own skins).

It would be inhumane and heartless to not respond to a plea for help by these people.
On the other hand, to intervene (when the people have not even asked for it) in Saudi would be simple regime change (because WE didn't like their rulers).

Some of the people ITK,certainly not all in either country.
All we did in libya was take sides in a civil war,and we're slowly and begrudgingly being told that things are getting worse over there.
Syria is far more complex,again a civil war in all but name.Had we not have exceeded our UN mandate in libya we would have had support,and perhaps intervention from a united UN could have been achieved.however world politics is a complex animal,I visit many of these countries,and hear many sides of the arguments,not just the western meejah one.

Reminds me of dear Kenny Everett - Let's Bomb Russia!!!!

He was joking (too - I hope).

Kenny got support from lots of people with Let's Bomb Russia even if they never heard of Russia. Chernobyl changed all that me and some mates are thinking of going there sometime , the radiation is the same as 3 x-rays in a hospital.

Innocent Accused wrote:
Some of the people ITK,certainly not all in either country.
All we did in libya was take sides in a civil war,and we're slowly and begrudgingly being told that things are getting worse over there.


Oh dear .... a "civil war" ? Your not falling for that old mantra are you?
An organised well equipped army with tanks - against a rabble of people ?
Why do you think existing army members are deserting (and joining the people) ?
And "begrudgingly" ? This is a terror police state !!!
They wont allow any journalists in (I wonder why !!!!)

Just as in Libya, the people WILL win (just as the people always win ... VietCong, IRA, Sandinistas, ANC etc).

We either help them - or (as we did in Iran) keep propping up their failed dictatorship and the people will remember AFTER they have won.

UPDATE

US closes its embassy in Syria and pulls out all staff

edition.cnn.com/2012/02/06/us/syria-emba...index.html?hpt=hp_t1

We're going to attack ! (and quite right too).

Kill all despots (its the only thing they understand).

Why don't you write a satirical song about David Cameron? There's plenty of material you could throw together into a funny ditty...

DJ Silver Spoon Face ft. Masters of Spin

V1
Let's all hug a hoody
And be a goody goody
Rub in some hair gel
You'll do really well

V2
Don't talk with a plumb
And they won't think you're dumb
All those years in PR
Will help you go far

tbc...

In The Know wrote:
Innocent Accused wrote:
Some of the people ITK,certainly not all in either country.
All we did in libya was take sides in a civil war,and we're slowly and begrudgingly being told that things are getting worse over there.


Oh dear .... a "civil war" ? Your not falling for that old mantra are you?
An organised well equipped army with tanks - against a rabble of people ?
Why do you think existing army members are deserting (and joining the people) ?
And "begrudgingly" ? This is a terror police state !!!
They wont allow any journalists in (I wonder why !!!!)

Just as in Libya, the people WILL win (just as the people always win ... VietCong, IRA, Sandinistas, ANC etc).

We either help them - or (as we did in Iran) keep propping up their failed dictatorship and the people will remember AFTER they have won.

Have you ever been to Libya,Syria,Saudi Arabia etc ITK?

Innocent Accused wrote:
Have you ever been to Libya,Syria,Saudi Arabia etc ITK?

No, Yes, and No (but I've not been to the Moon either - but still know quite alot about it !)

Syria's isolation escalates as the Gulf States all withdraw their ambassadors and expel the Syrian ambassador from their countries.

The GCC said it would urge all other Arab states to adopt "decisive measures" when the Arab League meets next week.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16932556

Hopw long ago was it, that I declared "Syria Next" ?

In The Know wrote:
Innocent Accused wrote:
Have you ever been to Libya,Syria,Saudi Arabia etc ITK?

No, Yes, and No (but I've not been to the Moon either - but still know quite alot about it !)

I've been to all of them,and on a regular basis,I'll take your word about the moon

Innocent Accused wrote:


I've been to all of them,and on a regular basis

So what?
Do you think that gives you some special insight?
Does that make the locals (most of whom are terrified of the secret police, and state spies) open up to YOU and let you know what is in their hearts?

In The Know wrote:
Innocent Accused wrote:
Have you ever been to Libya,Syria,Saudi Arabia etc ITK?

No, Yes, and No (but I've not been to the Moon either - but still know quite alot about it !)

Proof ur from another planet
I'd go with the posters on here who actually have been to the places involved,as I have also on occasions.

JK2006 wrote:
Reminds me of dear Kenny Everett - Let's Bomb Russia!!!!

He was joking (too - I hope).

He was, he said later that all that stuff he did at the Tory Party conference in the 1980s was ill judged; his General Cheeseburger routine was superb though!

I've started my little boy on 'clean' Benny Hill (his early 90s stuff with the kids as his comic foils were superb), but 'clean' Kenny Everett is going to be next!