Barney wrote:
JK2006 wrote:
immigration is fair

Maybe so - but, often, the natives don't think so.

Incidents of violence against foreigners evidence this.

Such as last night in Bottrop, Germany - where a Mercedes driver drove into a group of non-nationals.

Not so unusual these days, in so many countries.


Trump's America First philosophy is replicated - all over Europe.




Don't let facts get in way of King's feelings.

How many 'Isolated' incidents of violence does there have to be before the elite and the unelected politicians wake up ?

Unelected? I though politicians got elected? Perhaps I've got my facts wrong.

JK2006 wrote:
Unelected? I though politicians got elected? Perhaps I've got my facts wrong.


Jean-Claude Juncker, anyone?

I Trump him with May and Merkel and Macron.

The principal reasons why many nations oppose immigration are:-


- wages will come down, as immigrants will take lower paid jobs

- they abuse welfare systems that they've made no contribution to

- often, they refuse to assimilate - insisting on keeping their own cultures, even laws

- crime levels rise on their arrival

- the threat of terrorism increases


Despite these concerns, people like Dr Merkel have made bold and strong humanitarian decisions.

And very unpopular ones...

Green Man wrote:
JK2006 wrote:
Unelected? I though politicians got elected? Perhaps I've got my facts wrong.


Jean-Claude Juncker, anyone?


Elected yes - by the Member States.

The latter being European countries/governments (like ours) - voted in by the electorates.

Cameron wasn't keen on him though, as JCJ is a straight talker and thinker with - being from a very small country - no hidden agenda.

Barney wrote:
The principal reasons why many nations oppose immigration are:-


- wages will come down, as immigrants will take lower paid jobs

- they abuse welfare systems that they've made no contribution to

- often, they refuse to assimilate - insisting on keeping their own cultures, even laws

- crime levels rise on their arrival

- the threat of terrorism increases


Despite these concerns, people like Dr Merkel have made bold and strong humanitarian decisions.

And very unpopular ones...




Shush.

Otherwise Owen Jones and King will call you a 'racist'.

Owen Jones loves blaming the elderly whom most if not all have paid in the system.

JK2006 wrote:
Unelected? I though politicians got elected? Perhaps I've got my facts wrong.

I can't remember a vote to have that Ponce Tusk as a European council president.

Green Man wrote:
I can't remember a vote to have that Ponce Tusk as a European council president

Most can...

Barney wrote:
Green Man wrote:
I can't remember a vote to have that Ponce Tusk as a European council president

Most can...




Wasn't in the referendum or any ballot paper I had.

We all have borders, and we enforce them. They are called front doors and garden fences, etc.
When the public streets are full, the 'new arrivals' will spill into our gardens and, eventually, into our homes, without some kind of limit or control. That's just plain maths.
Let those who demand open borders set the example by inviting immigrants into their homes.
The UK is a small group of islands with limited capacity. Our ability to feed the citizens depends our farmland, so we cannot be expected to build on those areas. Plus, our hospitals (and GP surgeries) and schools are already struggling under the increased pressure.

That's reality.

most of the comments on here against immigration and even asylum seekers are ridiculous and the same old stuff wheeled out time and time again over decades.

Except for JK who I admire for his beliefs which co-incide with mine (a good example of JK's sheer brilliance )

How many of you shop at a Westfield ? (JK does)

Built and owned by a former Haganah member (deemed terrorists by the British government) Sir Frank Lowy possibly Australia's richest billionaire who arrived in Australia as a penniless refugee.

Lowy's partner in Westfield was another refugee the late John Saunders (no idea what his Polish Jewish name really was) who was the only well known businessman to send a wreath to my father's funeral- seeing it was my dad as a British bank representative in Oz looking for business opportunities funded Saunders and Lowy (and dozens of potless Italian immigrants) as he correctly perceived that these people coming from dreadful murderous situations and arriving in a land where they were free were more likely to work hard and make a success.

He was spot on and he got a Gold Watch back in the UK when he retired.

Today's refugess / immigrants are no different.

How many brilliant people are you turning away by having this fixed attitude that treats people as possible threats?
Sir Gustav Nossil another Aussie fleeing from the Nazis who eventually won the Nobel Prize with his brilliant work on immunology.

The Chinese Australian Victor Chang the brilliant heart surgeon (sadly murdered) who Princess Diana chose as her last public appearance to launch a charity in his honour..Australia is full of Asian and Chinese students who top every school and university honors...

The Australian research unit the CSIRO peopled by refugees who fled Europe after WW2 and invented WIFI...WIFI for God's Sake !...and dozens of other inventions like my favourite..permanent pleat pants.

why are you allowing your views on immigrants / refugees to be formed by the absolute gutter of British citizens who think a career criminal like "Tommy Robinson" somehow has a brain and who parade their phony "patriotism" (waving idiotic St George flags) and then off to the pub for a booze-up and bash the missus when you get home?

Honestly I think there is a new generation who don;t realize Alf Garnet was a send up

Sneering at people with different views doesn't help your argument, hedda. It just makes you look like yet another supercilious Authoritarian Leftist.

As PaulB rightly says, it's a question of numbers. Let's suppose the UK does open its borders as JK suggests. Let's also suppose that 1% of the populations of India, China and Africa come. They might all be very nice people and Nobel prize winners and profitable entrepreneurs.

But that 1% is 40 million people. Anyone who doesn't see the obvious problems that would ensue is blinded by ideology.

'Let's suppose'...and then draw conclusions!


The classic Straw Man argument...

Randall wrote:
Sneering at people with different views doesn't help your argument, hedda. It just makes you look like yet another supercilious Authoritarian Leftist.

As PaulB rightly says, it's a question of numbers. Let's suppose the UK does open its borders as JK suggests. Let's also suppose that 1% of the populations of India, China and Africa come. They might all be very nice people and Nobel prize winners and profitable entrepreneurs.

But that 1% is 40 million people. Anyone who doesn't see the obvious problems that would ensue is blinded by ideology.

Take the celebs at 'Hollyweird' they are probably immigration and left wing.

Yet they live in big houses have top notch security so no one can enter their property. Their parties have a guest list, not on the list non entry. Sounds like they don't like strangers either.

JK, is a NIMBY also like the rest.

oh sod off Randall and you too Green Man posting moronic claptrap like "hollyweird". And what the fuck do you mean by "nimby"?. If you think Bayswater is an exclusive British enclave you must be blind.

when will people get it through their skulls that a billion Chinese people and the vast majority of world citizens love living in their homelands?

Otherwise 50 million Brits would piss off to Spain to get away from the plonkers and grey skies.

And it's a pity some of the 100s of of Brits & Irish who were vomiting on the Bondi boulevard on News Year Day didn't piss off back to Blighty.

The arrogance of British people who seem to think they are unbelievable special when every day the news is full of increasing cretinous.

A flood of immigrants would probably do wonders for the National IQ.

hedda wrote:
oh sod off Randall and you too Green Man posting moronic claptrap like "hollyweird". And what the fuck do you mean by "nimby"?. If you think Bayswater is an exclusive British enclave you must be blind.

when will people get it through their skulls that a billion Chinese people and the vast majority of world citizens love living in their homelands?

Otherwise 50 million Brits would piss off to Spain to get away from the plonkers and grey skies.

And it's a pity some of the 100s of of Brits & Irish who were vomiting on the Bondi boulevard on News Year Day didn't piss off back to Blighty.

The arrogance of British people who seem to think they are unbelievable special when every day the news is full of increasing cretinous.

A flood of immigrants would probably do wonders for the National IQ.

Triggered!!

I have to say I find arguments like 40 million will invade our shores and "why don't you let a dozen refugees live in your home then?" so ludicrous that they don't warrant answers. You can't reason with people who believe green is red.

I am horrified at the selfish attitude of "we need them to work in the health service".

So let them come so long as we get something out of it?

Never mind that a lot of migrant people are FORCED to leave their own countries because conditions are so terrible.
And, those people who can move countries are the more able and (comparatively) wealthy.
Sod the others that cant get out then?

We are using the fitter, smarter, richer and healthier people for our own benefit, and leaving the more vulnerable, elderly, sick, and poor to fend for themselves, when the aim should be to make the situation better for people in their own country.
As long as WE are alright, (Jack) who cares?

JK2006 wrote:
I have to say I find arguments like 40 million will invade our shores and "why don't you let a dozen refugees live in your home then?" so ludicrous that they don't warrant answers. You can't reason with people who believe green is red.

Thing is King, people like you embrace this ideology you preach but do very little. If you want them take them in or buy them a cheap flat.

Not everyone likes your view but a lot are labelled 'racist' if we don't agree.

Remember a lot of jobs are being taking over by robots and many who come in are unskilled.

In ROI the migrants we embraced are the ones who work in hospitals and GP surgeries. We the hate ones that do nothing to help themselves.