The other thread has become cumbersome so I thought I'd start a fresh one but do read the posts on the other; very interesting links and interviews. The Americans do False Allegations SOOO much better than the Brits. Compare these, Michael Jackson and others to the pathetic transparent bleatings about Jimmy Savile and others. From a very young age, the Yanks are groomed to be potential media stars. Vox Pops - stopping them in the street - provokes Oscar winning performances in the States. Here they all start SO and stumble over the shortest words and most simplistic thoughts.

Of course she must get bail (with strict conditions) but we all know who runs everything globally these days - the media; and NOT granting bail is a better story.

MUST?

Bail was never even possible - simply because this 'socialite' had an uncannily
successful modus operandi, of virtual entrapment.

Videoing and recording the famous in embarrassing and/or newsworthy situations - whilst always having future potential in mind.

Front seat at a US President's family wedding, dining with the Queen at Sandringham - and involving a naive, but lustful Andrew.


Surely JK - you can see that this lady had other agendas?

Which - over the next 12 months (of her prison stay) will be dripfed to the world.

Many famous names are watching very closely to see what Maxwell says, if she's allowed.



Unlike her mentor....

Agree with you Barney; media assured judges would deny Maxwell bail. Is that the way justice should proceed? In these days of presumption of guilt, it seems correct.
As does your assessment of her guilt. I know no details of the reality; only what I've seen in media but judging from that, it seems a trial is quite needless.
Would you prefer all cases are dealt with this way?

Neither the courts, nor I, have said GM is guilty. Just that she's a flight risk.

Having several nationalities and passports - and a proven ability to dissappear.

As well as several million dollars, and plenty of worldwide contacts.


Of course, justice should take its course - though, for all those concerned.

Misunderstood you Barney; when you talked about her "other agendas" and activities videoing and using tapes - I know nothing about any of this apart from media claims (I never take any media stories as evidence). You clearly have better information. Apologies.

Barney wrote:
Videoing and recording the famous in embarrassing and/or newsworthy situations - whilst always having future potential in mind.
Do we know for sure that she secretly recorded people or is this just an online rumour or based on an unreliable source? Even if Epstein did secretly record people, there's no guarantee it was a joint enterprise or Maxwell has the tapes. But is it even true that he recorded people? Maria Farmer, the original accuser, has claimed Epstein showed her a "media room" in his New York home linked to hidden cameras in bathrooms and bedrooms
but (1) one has to wonder why anyone would disclose hidden cameras to anyone if they wanted it to remain a secret and not scare off future guests and (2) she has made wild claims, such as receiving death threats from Ghislaine Maxwell, and (to an online conspiracy theorist Shaun Attwood) that Ghislaine Maxwell showed her two straps on the wall which she said she'd hang upside down from like a bat for 45 minutes to make herself look younger.

There's also this, suggesting that Farmer misrepresents past events: The New York Academy of Art Commissioned a Report That Purports to Discredit Claims That the School Enabled Jeffrey Epstein’s Abuses From that article: "Guggenheim says that Farmer only mentioned the trip later, once she was back in New York, telling Guggenheim that “the creepiest thing happened” to her with Epstein in Ohio. Guggenheim told the investigators that she “responded by telling Farmer, ‘don’t put yourself in those kinds of situations.'” If Guggenheim's recollection is true, it seems odd that someone claiming to have been sexually assaulted by two people, leaving her sore and with bruises, described it as "the creepiest thing". That would seem to fit with something less serious.

It's not surprising she hasn't been given bail. If she's guilty, she's clearly in the right place. But if she's not, it's a pretty awful situation to be in.

Well put JK, "Presumed Guilty".

The title first used in modern times by veteran barrister Michael Mansfield in 1993 describing the entire failed UK Justice system. Post-Guildford Four/Maguire Seven/Birmingham Six, mass miscarriages,

And again in 2017 by late victim of lies-for-loot Simon Warr in his precient work deployed from his BBC background.

Once more exposing this particular decades old yet still 'very profitable' ignoble mass media deception, become a 'child protection racket'.

The new fake 'patriotism' for profit, last refuge of scoundrels!

Which harms, not helps, truly abused childern by distracting scarce resources from their ongoing plight.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-49072066

barristerblogger.com/2017/04/18/presumed...y-simon-warr-review/

trove.nla.gov.au/work/24463759

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumed_Guilty

Guilty or not, this seems rather inhumane. In the BBC Newsnight segment below, the reporter mentions that because Ghislaine Maxwell is on suicide watch, the lights in her cell are kept on 24 hours a day. Imagine even a week of that, let alone a year (assuming she's kept on suicide watch).

Barney, how do we know the entrapment is a fact? Does she have a previous conviction?

A couple of things occurred to me about the idea that Epstein/Maxwell farmed out girls to other people for more than massage.

(1) What was so special about these girls that Epstein/Maxwell would do that?
(2) What did Epstein/Maxwell get out of it? If they were being paid, surely that would show up in their financial records, and the FBI would surely know all about Epstein's, possibly even Maxwell's, by now.

Judging from her Twitter account, Virginia Roberts Giuffre is revelling in her power and influence. Interviewed on CBS to discuss "who's next", gloating at Ghislaine Maxwell's predicament under a court artist's sketch of her in prison garb "how the mighty fall so far, I am understandably smiling ear to ear", suggesting that anyone who says she's doing it all for money should be "investigated".

VRG: "Airing soon CNN [she meant CBS] me and Gayle [King] having a chat about Maxwell and what’s & whos next. Tune in."

VRG: "How how the mighty fall so far, i am understandably smiling ear to ear and thank the judge, prosecutors, lawyers & survivors who helped keep her behind bars!! Congratulations world- one less predator off the streets!!"

[Another Twitter user] "Why am I proud of Jan? She just told a person who accused @VRSVirginia of LYING about her deposition. LYING about being raped!

She told them to Fuqq off
Woman dancing"

VRG: "Thank you- don’t feel the need to steep to such low life’s. If anything they should be investigated if they think what I’m fighting for is all for $$. Some ppl- ugh
Weary face"

From Geraldo Rivera (an "American reporter, attorney, author and former television host" who "appears regularly on Fox News" (Wikipedia)):

"#GhislaineMaxwell improperly denied bail, despite #COVID19 peril in prison. Now she’s stuck in solitary confinement to be tortured for next year, not having been convicted of any of these 25 year old allegations, nor even found liable in any civil suit. But hungry mob is happy."

He was inevitably attacked on all sides for saying this and several people suggest that he may be involved in sex crime himself. The mob at work.

It’s got everything for a good story.. would make a great movie or TV drama..

Money, extreme wealth, multiple mansions, world business and political leaders and a Royal connection..

The idea that the super wealthy are invincible and live on another plane to the rest of the human race..
different rules apply, no rule apply... buy an island, fly private, it’s a marvellous life after all...

Then it goes all wrong...

Talking of languishing on a gorgeous island in the sunshine

Rather as with CoronaVirus I've seen global media in action (they adored the Vile Pervert story back in 2000 and loved working with police on "a great Story") so I can comment on the way media deals with great stories. When the Dreadful Duo (as correctly spotted in MeMeMeMovie.com) teams up with the Judiciary and politicians, justice is totally abandoned.

I'm sure Epstein liked attractive girls. I'm fairly sure, like Savile, he was too bright to risk EVER doing anything with anyone under age in any jurisdiction. I'm sure he happily introduced willing friends to other wealthy & powerful people who might well have been generous with gifts and I'm sure those introduced were not only consensual but desperately keen for any connection and delighted to take smiling selfies. I'm sure media has assisted "accusers" with advice on details, ages etc in the 2020 version of their happy memories. I'm sure police or FBI or whoever likewise "assist". As do lawyers and PR people. A passing peck on the cheek can be SOOO improved by professional "description". I'm sure money changed hands (now, if not then). I'm sure punters who know nothing prefer outrage and indignation to disbelief of "a great story". I'm sure many resent the rich and powerful and are delighted to see them fall. I'm sure good acting can be trained; tears can be constructed without use of onions.

I've been there. Experienced that. Seen it. Felt it. Know it.

And I've watched it destroy innocent people. Long conversations with innocent Simon Warr as it ate away at his inner soul. Disbelief by ordinary people, killed as they became fodder to the machine. Watch GuiltyMovie.com to see the story of a quadriplegic destroyed by being falsely accused of being a VICTIM of imaginary abuse (he told me in graphic detail about it).

Very few survive. Even Epstein, clearly an intelligent man able to deal with media problems, could not cope.

Like the thousands of deaths due to the media inflation and panic contrived over a trivial virus. Elderly pensioners in care homes who got no protection or treatment whilst governments wasted millions on vast, empty white elephant panic hospitals.

"Oh, send them back to care homes to infect and kill a few more pensioners; they can't vote anyway".

As long as the traditional media avoids killing off the golden geese of great stories - politicians grovel to them. Punters gullibly believe instructions.

I have no doubt Ghislaine Maxwell will go down for crimes she did NOT commit. I have no doubt false accusers like Carl Beech will be protected and paid vast sums. I also have no doubt Karma will kick in; many will discover, on trips to Vegas to gamble their ill gotten gains, lumps in strange places that money cannot remove.

At 75 there is little I can do but notice. And comment. And pass on my thoughts to you, gentle reader, who might actually have an open mind and a tiny amount of ability to see facts, not hype.

Great post, JK. You could also pass on any tips and insights to her lawyers, named in the other thread.

Below is Virginia Roberts Giuffre's latest interview, to CBS, with plenty of easy leading questions from clear sympathiser, Gayle King. If that's her own home she's in, VRG seems to live in a rather attractive large house.

Also an article from the Daily Mail, under which there is a surprising number of comments critical of VRG.

'Epstein was Pinocchio and she was Geppetto': Virginia Roberts Giuffre claims Ghislaine Maxwell was 'worse' than the billionaire pedophile and was the 'mastermind' of his sex trafficking ring

And have you noticed how false accusers tend to pile on the pounds? Dear Virginia is starting to look like a drag version of Carl Beech.

I dont think she is a flight risk at all. It looks like a sour scheme to hold someone in prison because Epstein died.

No I think she IS a flight risk but the government should be sufficiently able to keep her contained with strict rules (ankle tab, surrender passport etc). Yes; this is vindictive pandering by judiciary to the media. But when society is run by media, no surprise there.

I also think she's a flight risk but more because of the sentence she faces, guilty or innocent, than how she behaved when the FBI arrived. Her lawyers' explanations of that seem credible (fleeing to an interior room as she'd been instructed to do if there was a disturbance outside [she couldn't have known for sure the people outside were the FBI] and having a phone in tinfoil because her phone had previously been hacked [logical in a prominent person from the UK, given the phone hacking scandal]). If she'd been bailed she might also have had more opportunity to take the suicide route, and possibly been more exposed to attack from other people if they discovered her whereabouts (I imagine a luxury hotel housing her couldn't have remained secret for long), though this jail she's in apparently has a "a history of "corrupt staff", beatings and sexual assault" (Newsweek).

But the question remains - should justice be influenced by the incompetence of society and the inability of FBI & cops to protect an innocent person (until or unless proven guilty in a court of law)?