Even though they have now gone into level three.

So gyms are safe in Lancashire and dangerous in Liverpool? How?

How much more of this bollocky nonsense are we supposed to put up with?

The rioting will be coming again soon.

In a very competitive field, the stupidity of dividing areas up for differential lockdown (=profound harm) tops the Govs performance.

There at least was a level playing field and some national unity back in March.

All gone now.

Rioting is next; hope to be proved wrong.

Lancashire saw this (Tier 3) coming and played their cards well.

And successfully negotiated many concessions, including one for gyms.

Together with a £42 million payment - and, perhaps, more later.

So local leaders can now negotiate specific terms within higher tiers and bargain for more money in order to agree how far their citizens will be controlled.

Devolution of responsibility by a cowardly Gov. A financial incentive for hard up local authorities to play ball. With no exit strategy and Covid going nowhere.

Another fine mess Stan....

middlemas wrote:
Lancashire saw this (Tier 3) coming and played their cards well.

And successfully negotiated many concessions, including one for gyms.

Together with a £42 million payment - and, perhaps, more later.

Yes, successfully negotiated, but I thought the purpose was closing things down to keep us safe?

What does negotiations have to do with it? The very idea is obscene.
Either gyms are safe or they are not. The virus is not influenced by negotiations, the clock chiming ten, or if people are holding a Cornish pasty or not!

Wyot wrote:
So local leaders can now negotiate specific terms within higher tiers and bargain for more money in order to agree how far their citizens will be controlled


This has been happening as a matter of course for years - in health, education, transport, policing and virtually everything else.

Usually though, the main protagonists are Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Wait to see the deal Greater Manchester gets!

middlemas wrote:
Wyot wrote:
So local leaders can now negotiate specific terms within higher tiers and bargain for more money in order to agree how far their citizens will be controlled


This has been happening as a matter of course for years - in health, education, transport, policing and virtually everything else.

Usually though, the main protagonists are Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Wait to see the deal Greater Manchester gets!


Are you saying you agree that the rules should be different according to the negotiations?

middlemas wrote:
Wyot wrote:
So local leaders can now negotiate specific terms within higher tiers and bargain for more agmoney in order to agree how far their citizens will be controlled


This has been happening as a matter of course fo this r years - in health, education, transport, policing and virtually everything else.



Over an education budget maybe but never before to remove the fundamental rights of civil liberty such as seeing who the hell you wish to in your own home.

I agree with Honey that it is obscene.

Watching the news earlier I had to pinch myself - this bollocks is actually fucking happening..

We can sit on crowded aeroplanes with masks on and those are except without one.

Yet we can't sit in a theatre !


Looks like I might have to invest in an old pub piano and hire an old pianist for a sing-song.

Honey wrote:
[quote]middlemas wrote:
Either gyms are safe or they are not.


If only things were that simple. Nowhere is totally safe, even the shops which have remained open.

Or our homes - because the provisions we take in could be contaminated. We ourselves could get infected from a door handle or surface.

So little is known about Covid that we can only offer the most simplistic defences - distancing, hygiene and common sense.

middlemas wrote:
[quote]Honey wrote:
middlemas wrote:
Either gyms are safe or they are not.


If only things were that simple. Nowhere is totally safe, even the shops which have remained open.

Or our homes - because the provisions we take in could be contaminated. We ourselves could get infected from a door handle or surface.

So little is known about Covid that we can only offer the most simplistic defences - distancing, hygiene and common sense.


The phrase the government like to use is "covid safe". Obviously we all know it is a load of bullshit, but can you explain how gyms in one area can be more "covid safe" than another area?

You can eliminate the risk of being infected at home, if it bothers you.
Make up a spray bottle (daily) of water and a splash of milton and spray all food packaging with it.

Everything else can either have a quick blast of alcohol, dettol, zoflora, or just be left for a week for the virus to die.

It cant get through the skin, so you are not at risk of catching it from surfaces as long as you antibac after.

If you keep away from people and wear a protective mask, the risk is low.

You cant be worrying about it in your own home, Barney. You will go bonkers.

middlemas wrote:
[quote]Honey wrote:
middlemas wrote:
Either gyms are safe or they are not.


If only things were that simple. Nowhere is totally safe, even the shops which have remained open.



Nothing is totally safe from anything. To try and eliminate a specific risk out of many and cause immeasurable harm by doing so, two questions must be satisfactorily answered:

1. Why this risk in particular over the others?
2. Is our response proportionate to the harm caused?

Evidence is required to answer both; not platitudes.

I have never come across a pro lockdown apologist who is even asking these questions; let alone trying to answer them.

Honey wrote:
It cant get through the skin, so you are not at risk of catching it from surfaces as long as you antibac after.


You can be infected if you touch a contaminated surface and then touch your eyes, mouth or nose.

Wyot wrote:
[quote]middlemas wrote:
Honey wrote:
middlemas wrote:
Either gyms are safe or they are not.


If only things were that simple. Nowhere is totally safe, even the shops which have remained open.



Nothing is totally safe from anything. To try and eliminate a specific risk out of many and cause immeasurable harm by doing so, two questions must be satisfactorily answered:

1. Why this risk in particular over the others?
2. Is our response proportionate to the harm caused?

Evidence is required to answer both; not platitudes.

I have never come across a pro lockdown apologist who is even asking these questions; let alone trying to answer them.

There appears to have been a short circuit of logic.
The reasoning seems to be that they cant shut down the high risk things (school. Uni) so their fuddled thinking tells them they have to shut something else. Anything. Even when the risk is negligible.

middlemas wrote:
Honey wrote:
It cant get through the skin, so you are not at risk of catching it from surfaces as long as you antibac after.


You can be infected if you touch a contaminated surface and then touch your eyes, mouth or nose.

Well don't touch your eyes, mouth or nose then, you wally!

I did say to antibac after.

Wyot wrote:
Why this risk in particular over the others

Because it's killed over a million people, we can't stop it spreading and are unable to find a cure for it?

middlemas wrote:
Wyot wrote:
Why this risk in particular over the others

Because it's killed over a million people, we can't stop it spreading and are unable to find a cure for it?

But we CAN stop it spreading. We stopped it spreading in lockdown. Almost.
We CHOSE to open airports, businesses and schools.

As for the cure, we already have much more effective treatment for it, and they say a vaccine will be ready soon.

In the meantime, stand back and wash your hands.

middlemas wrote:
Wyot wrote:
Why this risk in particular over the others

Because it's killed over a million people, we can't stop it spreading and are unable to find a cure for it?

This is not an answer to the first question.

It is an assertion about the risks of the particular risk you are focused on.

Question 1 is comparative. You need to compare and contrast risks, with data and reasoning, to answer it.

middlemas wrote:
Wyot wrote:
Why this risk in particular over the others

Because it's killed over a million people, we can't stop it spreading and are unable to find a cure for it?

Is that you Barney?! 🤔

Honey wrote:
In the meantime, stand back and wash your hands.


And don't touch your face, until you're vaccinated?