Another example of media superficiality; I declare a position here; I'm essentially a Democrat just as I'm instictively a Liberal. Socially tolerant; admiring many aspects of communism whilst also seeing flaws in both Capitalism and Socialism. You can't be in the media without embracing freedom of speech; opposing dictatorship. But I actually think Democracy does not work (Benign Autocracy usually does - at the start).

But I look at America. I'm full of admiration for Trump. I am sure I wouldn't like him in person; I cannot stand most of his policies. I think humanity should Open All Borders, for example, suffering short term pain for the eventual benefit of our species.

Trump knows how to use the media. He understands that, this century, simplification rools OK. Slogans work. Tabloid headlines work. Very few want depth of thought or analysis.

I experienced this as the century dawned. Inability to examine reality. Guilty or Not Guilty. Nothing in between.

Brexit. Covid19. Black or white; no grey. Yet everything tends to be complex. As a species we no longer have the time nor the inclination to consider in depth.

Trump has been incredibly successful using exactly that technique - as I have been throughout my life. Anybody who can persuade hundreds of thousands to buy a music track called Leap Up And Down Wave Your Knickers In The Air deserves to be President.

Media never mentions that Trump got millions more votes than nearly all elected Presidents. 74 million people voted for him.
I don't go along with his "fraud" approach. Biden won. But I can see Trump winning in 2024. Either as Republican candidate or as Trump candidate, with those other votes being split (he'd probably get 60% of Republican votes and 40% of Democratic ones).

The Media won't give up on him though - until he becomes "the bigger story". It can happen.

Can Trump continue to beat them until they decide to join him? Who knows? We shall see.

And the other side of this...

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/...-million-vote-total/

So, if I were Trump, what would I do next? Well, if lawyers agreed, I'd issue a Presidential Pardon (or get Pence to do so) for any "mistakes" made during period of office.

Secondly, next week I'd issue a very generous message to Biden/Harris, saying, despite strong opposition to many policies, they have 100% support from him and his 74 million supporters in this terrible time of Covid19 and in bringing back peace and acceptance for all Americans. I'd speak incredibly highly of the achievements and abilities of both, exaggerating wildly and doing so in simplistic slogans that can (and will) be quoted for four years by every stupid media outlet. I'd wish them both well; give them total support for the first one hundred days and sincerely hope (he's good at sincere) for their success.

Not a word of doubt or disagreement. No more allegations of fraud or vote fixing. Accept the result, attend the inauguration, increase security precautions for ex Presidents over the next four years.

Then go on a golf holiday to Mar El Largo.

My prediction JK is that Trump will do none of what you would do next; except maybe the golf. This is because the one aspect of him I think you have got wrong is that he is cleverly using the media.

I think he is just being himself. I think the media just report him and millions have lapped it up as they see him as "genuine" in contrast to the shallow presentational politicians they are so tired of.

In this respect his supporters are right and he is genuine.

I predict he will not now go gracefully. He is not capable of it; even if this would be the smart way to use the media.

He will go kicking and screaming like the baby he is; his administration will all desert him (they have started to already) and all mainstream media will turn on him - far from him leading the media.

Trump isn't smart.

He inherited his wealth and was just the right loud-mouth in the right place at the right time to get elected and upset the apple cart.

Could have been anyone like him.

Simple slogans and clever photos. That's the way to do it, Mr Punch.

I hope you're right wyot; incompetence over conspiracy any time! Let's see how he handles it. I would agree; if he does as you think, he's toast. If he does as I suspect, he'll be President again in 4 years (though why anybody would want the job is beyond me, especially in his 80s).

JK compares himself to Trump?

Trump used the media as he always has and the media used him. There's nothing nothing unique about what Trump has done.

1000s of people do it all the time. Hollywood uses the media brilliantly and the media use Hollywood. And they are 1000 times better than Trump at it as the general public can't even see it.

And 1000 pop stars have used the media far better than Trump could possibly hope to, and continue to flourish.

Before he became President, Trump had hit rock bottom publicity wise and was a joke in NY..and most likely broke.

He didn't even make the money he should have from The Biggest Loser because he signed a rotten deal that cut him out of foreign sales. So much for the Art Of The Deal. And the show was so successful because the producers knew how to use Trump.

We know he didn't expect to win IN 2015 but when he did- the intoxication of power took over.

I don;t know how much Trump has creamed off in the last 4 years but whether it's enough to pay off his creditors the $100s of Millions he owes- creditors who have been waiting until January, is a mystery.

The fantasy that Trump will run in 2024 really is delusional. He'll be 78 years old- older than Biden is today. The Republican Party will already be working out how to distance themselves from the Trump Bandwagon whose wheels have come off bigly. The Storming of Congress will be the last straw.

And he likely will spend years fighting of NY State charges over tax avoidance and a host of other allegations they are itching to go him for.

More importantly- the billionaire supporters of the Republican Party who financed Trump's 2015 bid abandoned him in 2020. Billionaires who backed trump in 2015 backed Biden in 2020. It's partly the reason he lost.

Trump is just the Monkey..a clever monkey but the Organ Grinders are the super rich powerful who fund the campaigns.
Jon Ossoff who won a Senate seat in Georgia raised $180,000,000 just to stand in the re-run of his election seat

There isn't a hope in hell of any Trump family member raising a penny, let alone the $Billions needed for a presidential bid.

The right wing billionaire Republican funders have abandoned him. They do it every now and then..a change in party gives them 4 years to re-organize.

One glaring example is how King Maker Rupert Murdoch abandoned Trump shortly before the election. Murdoch knows how to pick winners. He doesn't care which side of politics they are on..if he senses a win he's onboard.
And there are 100 US billionaires who act likewise.

There will be no Trump 2024 presidential bid because there will be no-one to fund it. There will be no Trump TV. The day of Trump is over.
The media circus moves ever onward. he's old news (especially after the past few days). Trump is a busted flush.

Yes Trump is a clever monkey - who bluntly and correctly identified China as the greatest geopolitical threat of the 21st century.

As well as making Americans pay less tax and a lot safer - whilst having more of them working than ever before.

Encouraged by lower interest rates, which Trump introduced - investors have also made killings on the stock markets, which are stronger than ever.

The S&P 500 increased by 50% in Trump's first term; technology stocks by 150%. And by 5% immediately after his election - on the expectation of financial deregulation and tax cuts, which came later.

Not the best president of recent times - nor the worst. Bush Jnr - for the latter; how quickly the Iraq war was forgotten; but very soon - so will Trump.

Alison wrote:
Yes Trump is a clever monkey - who bluntly and correctly identified China as the greatest geopolitical threat of the 21st century.

As well as making Americans pay less tax and a lot safer - whilst having more of them working than ever before.

Encouraged by lower interest rates, which Trump introduced - investors have also made killings on the stock markets, which are stronger than ever.

The S&P 500 increased by 50% in Trump's first term; technology stocks by 150%. And by 5% immediately after his election - on the expectation of financial deregulation and tax cuts, which came later.

Not the best president of recent times - nor the worst. Bush Jnr - for the latter; how quickly the Iraq war was forgotten; but very soon - so will Trump.

What makes you think Trump was behind any of this rather than people whispering in his ear?

China a geo political threat to US hegemony - any school kid could tell us that!

Deregulation and tax cuts from a business mogul who doesn't pay tax - total genius; never saw that coming...

JK, I agree with your historical summary but not with your future predictions. For the future my position is very close to Wyot in I don’t believe Trump will give up.

Trump is immensely selfish and has one of the biggest egos imaginable. You ask why he would want to be president in 2024 and the answer is because he can use the office to earn more money and gain the ultimate USA power base. Praise and adulation is what Trump desires and the office of president gives him that. He is like an addict and his ego needs to be fed regularly

Trump is not very clever he is however very lucky being in the right place at the right time.

JK, you may admire Trump for the way he treats the media but my prediction is that the media will become stronger as a result of theTrump era not weaker. Trump told lies and when challenged claimed the challenge was“fake news”. The extent of the lies he told will be highlighted after he leaves office and publications such as The Washington Post and New York Times will be seen to have been correct in each and every challenge they ever made.

Wyot wrote:
China a geo political threat to US hegemony - any school kid could tell us that!

As you'll see below - it was Trump who significantly changed the US position on China.


isdp.eu/publication/breaking-mould-trumps-china-policy/

Alison wrote:
Wyot wrote:
China a geo political threat to US hegemony - any school kid could tell us that!

As you'll see below - it was Trump who significantly changed the US position on China.


isdp.eu/publication/breaking-mould-trumps-china-policy/

So?

Wyot wrote:
What makes you think Trump was behind any of this rather than people whispering in his ear?


The same meaningless question could be asked about anything ever done, by anyone...

Alison you are making the classic mistake of thinking the stock market is the economy.

It's not and that's why Big Business wants Trump gone. He's been a disaster for the economy. And now the 1% have got their tax cuts he's of no more use to them.

Not one single infrastructure program has been introduced by Trump except his idiotic wall which never eventuated anyway just like everything else he promised.

Blind Freddy knows what China is on about. To imply Trump is some sort of genius for identifying China as a threat is laughable.

Do you really think the rest of the world has just sat back & ignored the fact that China will have the most powerful economy within another 10 years?

And the Chinese are the most practical people on the planet. They don't want to start a costly war. They just want to sell us things and expand their already 200 million Middle Class. They could switch from Communism to Capitalism in a flash if it suits.

Presidents aren't geniuses. They surround themselves with them. Trump didn't even do that. He surrounded himself with "advisers" who pandered to his inflated ego and who probably picked up his daily McDonalds for him.

Trump's ignorance about world affairs is legendary. Most of his fired staffers keep telling the world Trump never reads his daily briefings because he's bored and can't understand them anyway.

Half of the US manufacturing base is now in China. Another reason why the mega-rich such as the Waltons want the idiot orange faced buffoon gone.

Trump was very useful for the last 4 years but he started to believe his own publicity and that the masses who attend his rallies somehow means success.

They might be largely the downtrodden but that's because they have been voting against their own best interests for 4 decades now..ever since Ronald Reagan ( yes ..the movie star) who used the media far better than Donald Trump and was 10 times more popular as he didn't divide the USA (even though his policies were far more destructive than Trump's and began the assault on the Middle Classes)

The lunacy of "admiring" Trump for his ability to capture headlines really does indicate people who aren't thinking too deeply about much and forget history is replete with characters who have used the media.

He also has pandered to and ignored Russia. Putin must be rolling around laughing he's head off. And China and Russia are already forging an alliance.

After the attack on Congress Trump is finished.

I never thought there was any prospect he would go to jail as so many claim. Now I'm not so sure.

Alison wrote:
Wyot wrote:
What makes you think Trump was behind any of this rather than people whispering in his ear?


The same meaningless question could be asked about anything ever done, by anyone...

How can a question - defined by you as being of universal and enduring applicability - at the same time be meaningless?

So Trump starts to do exactly what I predicted above; he is conceding defeat, is condemning those who broke the law, is preparing to welcome and (I suspect) praise Biden. He will become generous, kind, supportive. He will urge co-operation with the Biden administration (for 100 days). Slowly, over the next couple of years, his strident criticism will begin to emerge. If he's sensible it will be far less strident, far more reasonable, backed by proof and evidence as the Biden reforms start failing (as they certainly will). Then he'll be poised to grab the Presidency in 2024, whether as a Republican, Independent or, as I suspect, a Democrat.

I'm still not a fan. I still disagree with most of his policies (as I did with Thatcher and Corbyn). But, as with Tony Blair, I admire his use of media. Manipulative? Oh yes - that is the way in this Century. Do I support those who fell for it? Not at all; just as I despise the gullibles who fell for the media hype of Covid19. And the Brexiteers. And those who cannot see the vast majority of sex allegations are exaggerated, inflated or totally false.

Hmmmmm maybe but bit too early for me.

Formally conceeding defeat and condemining violence; well yes he always had to do that (in the end). There are ways of doing it...And yesterday he undermined this message by also telling his supporters their "journey" was just beginning.

Not the language of someone wishing to quietly leave the stage, support his successor or quieten the violent.

If as you predict he now issues statements full of unambiguous praise, support and loyalty to Biden I will agree. He is still double-messaging.

No double thinking at all WYOT - he is, I'm sure, perfectly aware that contradictions are too complex for the vast majority. They - we - will simply accept the latest media hype. And the media (who know a good story when they see one) will gobble up the new, apologetic, generous Trump. I know very little but I do know media. I've been in it for about 60 years. You really should listen to Leap Up And Down.

Also "Leave the stage"????? Never! Trump adores being famous. It's his most important passion.

Really I think some posters should declare whether they've ever been in America - before pontificating on here; I lived there for years.

The Hill billes/drop-outs are everywhere in the US, ready to jump on any publicity opportunity - they're anti-everything, and support anybody.

A few hundred of them - stoned and smiling - entered a virtually unguarded building, after a few unfortunate words by an outgoing and inarticulate president.

You'd be forgiven for thinking - from some posters - that the US had been almost obliterated by demented drones, of foreign origin.