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[b]david wrote:[/b]
[quote][b]PaulB wrote:[/b]
[quote]It's a growing rejection of the EU, by the people who were never asked if they wanted to be a part of it. 
A large number of voters fear the EU more than they fear extremist parties.[/quote]

I'm surprised at how the point I was trying to make has somehow not registered.

Disagree or debate by all means, but.....

If you read all  the above, this is not about some Hungarian equivalent of Nigel Farage and Brexit.

(In fact, in spite of everything the government does and says, Hungarians as a whole remain positive about EU membership).

This is about a man who has changed from a champion of democracy to one who is destroying it pretty rapidly, and pretty ruthlessly.

I'm all for having debates about immigration, Islam etc but that is not what this is about.

Please re=read the above.

If Nigel Farage (or anyone else) came to power in the UK and systematically closed down almost all media outlets that disagreed with him, so that the only voices that could be heard throughout the country were those of fierce government propaganda, would you feel ok with that?

If a head of government in your country was spouting his fierce Christian faith (which I doubt Orbán has) at the same time as launching very blatant anti-muslim *and* anti-semitic attacks across public media and billboards, would you feel comfortable?  Remember, Hungary lost 400,000 Jews to the gas chambers. I have Jewish friends in Hungary who are very scared right now.

I thought this post might get a few replies equating the situation in Hungary with simple euroscepticism, or dissatisfaction with immigration.

This is far more serious.

Remember, fascism doesn't come knocking at the door, announcing itself, it creeps in by stealth.

A final, very interesting point:

Since 2006, the scourge of Hungarian politics has been the neo-Nazi Jobbik party, who gained in excess of 10% of the vote in most recent elections. In the last year they have undergone an extreme makeover and re-positioned themselves as a centre-right party.

Why have they done this? Because Orbán and his Fidesz party have taken over their territory.

Dangerous times.[/quote]

Enter code here

Topic History of: My Beloved Hungary,... what's happened??
Max. showing the last 5 posts - (Last post first)

Author	Message
david	Indeed Andrew wrote: It's called democracy,and using it to stop Hungary getting in the same mess we have got into.[/quote] hmmmm, shutting down newspapers, radio stations etc that don't toe the government's line..... Rigging, sorry redesigning, the electoral system so that a party with 49% of votes gets 67% of the seats and therefore can pass constitutional amendments to cement itself in power forever. Creating scores of ghost parties with very similar names to existing opposition parties, making ballot papers confusing or misleading. Yep, that's democracy alright.
Indeed Andrew	andrew wrote: robbiex wrote: Perhaps they don't want to become like the uk, fearing terrorist attacks, losing their identity, depressed wages, child grooming, honour killings, acid attacks, crash for cash, atm fraud, whilst all the politicians are cosying up to the them because they provide cheap labour for them. Ditto. Please don't forget about stabbings, vicious attacks on the elderly and muggings on the vulnerable. It's called democracy,and using it to stop Hungary getting in the same mess we have got into.
hedda	wyot wrote: Very thoughtful and informative post David; made me "smile" that posters apart from jk have demonstrated the point you eloquantly make regarding bigotry and hatred of minorities providing easy "answers... as if the litany of aggressive behaviours listed are exclusive to Britain and attributable to immigration solely...idiotic... fully agree. Very informative post David.
wyot	Very thoughtful and informative post David; made me "smile" that posters apart from jk have demonstrated the point you eloquantly make regarding bigotry and hatred of minorities providing easy "answers... as if the litany of aggressive behaviours listed are exclusive to Britain and attributable to immigration solely...idiotic...
david	PaulB wrote: It's a growing rejection of the EU, by the people who were never asked if they wanted to be a part of it. A large number of voters fear the EU more than they fear extremist parties. I'm surprised at how the point I was trying to make has somehow not registered. Disagree or debate by all means, but..... If you read all the above, this is not about some Hungarian equivalent of Nigel Farage and Brexit. (In fact, in spite of everything the government does and says, Hungarians as a whole remain positive about EU membership). This is about a man who has changed from a champion of democracy to one who is destroying it pretty rapidly, and pretty ruthlessly. I'm all for having debates about immigration, Islam etc but that is not what this is about. Please re=read the above. If Nigel Farage (or anyone else) came to power in the UK and systematically closed down almost all media outlets that disagreed with him, so that the only voices that could be heard throughout the country were those of fierce government propaganda, would you feel ok with that? If a head of government in your country was spouting his fierce Christian faith (which I doubt Orbán has) at the same time as launching very blatant anti-muslim and anti-semitic attacks across public media and billboards, would you feel comfortable? Remember, Hungary lost 400,000 Jews to the gas chambers. I have Jewish friends in Hungary who are very scared right now. I thought this post might get a few replies equating the situation in Hungary with simple euroscepticism, or dissatisfaction with immigration. This is far more serious. Remember, fascism doesn't come knocking at the door, announcing itself, it creeps in by stealth. A final, very interesting point: Since 2006, the scourge of Hungarian politics has been the neo-Nazi Jobbik party, who gained in excess of 10% of the vote in most recent elections. In the last year they have undergone an extreme makeover and re-positioned themselves as a centre-right party. Why have they done this? Because Orbán and his Fidesz party have taken over their territory. Dangerous times.