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Topic History of: Ah, Denise starts an intelligent new thread on Democracy.
Max. showing the last 5 posts - (Last post first)
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Solihull Exile |
The origional argument was about a western country replacing democracy with despotism,and being better for it.How on earth is this case replacing democracy?
Seems our arguments have diversed onto different paths,so best to agree to differ.
You haven't shown an example of a change from democracy,but have shown an example of a change from one despotism to another.
The origional Ottoman empire was indeed a great sucess in its day,but by 1918 had only survived because of outside interference from Britain and France,not allowing Russian influence to spread into the Dardenelles.
As for Ataturk not having a direct influence on modern Turkey you obviously have not been there.Had you have done so your comments on this matter would have been very different.
The whole of the current military government's constitution are based on his policies.He literally appears EVERYWHERE,banknotes,schools,all government buildings...even school children have to swear allegiance to the Turkish state,and his legacy every friday evening after the finish of school.
Again I have worked and lived there,and seen how devisive they can be.
And finally do not forget the current PKK fighting stemmed from this.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d' |
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zooloo |
There seems to be an attitude that the current poor Government should be swept away by the good sense of the electorate.. erm... how do you think this Government got there in the first place if not by the very people whose good sense is being held up as the pinnacle of perfection. |
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Anthony |
Solihull Exile wrote:
Anthony,if you think Ataturk's rule was an example of benign dictatorship then I suggest you go live there.A democratically elected government is about to be turfed out due to a constitution introduced by an army dictatorship.
It will of course depend a lot on if you dislike religion in politics,...but democracy that reflects the will of the majority has to be better than autocracy........a fair example here is the current uncertainty of the Turkish financial markets...investors won't invest in uncertainty.
At present Turkey is involved in a civil war with the PKK,another direct result of secular ataturk policies,no chance for compromise.
All in all a bad example,sorry to have to point it out...still waiting for a good one.
Ataturk modernised the Turkish state, drew it away from the evils of Islamic fundamentalism, and modernised the education system. He removed barbaric Sharia law, introduced forward thinking education at Istanbul university, and founded Ankara university. He introduced the railway system, and freed women from the oppression which Islam imposes upon them. He said:
"If henceforward the women do not share in the social life of the nation, we shall never attain to our full development. We shall remain irremediably backward, incapable of treating on equal terms with the civilizations of the West." Seventy years after his death, women are still suffering under the moronic backward Islamofascist cavemen ruling Iran, and many other Islamic states. He was a visionary.
He did try to introduce a multi-party democracy, but this was thwarted at every turn by the threat of extreme Islam.
To blame a man who died in 1938 for a current event in Turkey, which seems to be your only argument against my suggestion, appears a little lame to me. |
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Al |
I think that the main problem with the UK is that the safeguards within our system, which used to prevent any government from abusing power, have been wittled away. This included the hereditary peers who put country before politics being replaced by ex MPs whose main loyalties are still to their party. The rights of the accused, to the presumption of innocence. The misuse of the Parliament Act to push through unfavourable legislation. The creation of new terror laws which basically sweep away the established rights of citizens, detention without trial, increased surveillance, increased databases, etc.
Safeguards built into our system over centuries, for good reason, have been disabled in less than a decade, enabling abuse of power to a remarkable extent.
Even well intentioned individuals can be corrupted or make mistakes. Our system, to an extent, prevented those individuals' errors from endangering the nation - until changes were made.
Now .. anything can happen. |
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Solihull Exile |
Anthony,if you think Ataturk's rule was an example of benign dictatorship then I suggest you go live there.A democratically elected government is about to be turfed out due to a constitution introduced by an army dictatorship.
It will of course depend a lot on if you dislike religion in politics,...but democracy that reflects the will of the majority has to be better than autocracy........a fair example here is the current uncertainty of the Turkish financial markets...investors won't invest in uncertainty.
At present Turkey is involved in a civil war with the PKK,another direct result of secular ataturk policies,no chance for compromise.
All in all a bad example,sorry to have to point it out...still waiting for a good one. |
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