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Topic History of: Teachers dont have free speech in private
Max. showing the last 5 posts - (Last post first)
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BR |
Have you read the books by VERNON COLEMAN ? one of the best selling authors in the UK ?
Thought not.
Try
"LIVING IN A FASCIST COUNTRY"
where you get the full explanation of how we have lost free speech - with dates of each act and law. Countless examples of how New Labour has stopped free speech and countless examples of the way in which the education agenda has been used.
This is not a personal argument - you have a different opinion to a significant number of people who have provided the evidence ( you asked for it ) to back up their view.
I dont know everything ( who does ) but if that means I cant have an opinion then equally it means you opinion is just as worthless.
Why dont you get a copy of the above book ( Written in 2006 ) and not on any Conspiracy Theorist book list - and actually go through the work of someone who is 100% on writing about this subject.
I would be interested in your views after you have read the book.
You asked for evidence - it is all in that book. 343 pages of text.
I am not a Conspiracy Theorist as you already know. I believe in FREEDOM and I am a Christian ( but not religious - so you wont find me with a placard or telling people they have to belong to a church etc )
I base my views on evidence but allow for faith as well.
I just dont see why you want to be so argumentative about a story which is pretty straight forward. |
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Locked Out |
Oh dear, do we really have to go through all this again? Apparently so.
"My family are a family of teachers/lecturers. I spent 10 years doing it as well and have many friends doing it. Therefore your suggestion that I am only commenting from the outside is hugely wrong. I am telling you exactly what happens in schools. The "baa baa black sheep - looney left stuff" was media invention. But the propaganda aspect since 1999 has pervaded every aspect of our schools."
It may well be that you have a long and distinguished familial background in education. That doesn't even begin to back up your claims as to what is going on in every staff room in every school across the land. Still less does it make you privy to the freedoms of speech enjoyed by every teacher in this country. In short, you were - and still are - unqualified to make the claim you do in the thread title, which would require a much wider knowledge base and polling of sources than you present as your "argument". Friends and family - even a large family are not that many people in relation to the whole of the teaching profession.
I'm reminded here of your claim a short while ago to be well informed on Dick Cheney's covert political activities on the grounds that your daughter works for a company who work for him. That argument was probably even more fatuous than the one you present here, but never mind.
You can't possibly be telling me - or us - exactly what happens in schools. You might have an idea. But you don't make suggestions {as, indeed, is the case as far as I am concerned and we'll examine that later}, you make statements, like "Teachers dont have free speech in private". You can't possibly know that because you aren't privy to more than a few of the conversations which are going on. Suggest by all means. I'll have no problem with that. But to pose as if you are passing on definite fact is disingenuous, and this really should be pointed out to you.
"You accuse me of being racist and sexist because I dont agree with a Politically Correct agenda."
Where? I didn't, and you really should read these things more carefully.
"Typical response - to try and call someone a racist or sexist because they dont agree with you. I dont even want to explain my track record in both those areas needless to say I have been a champion of breaking female stereotypes in the music industry and continue to be so."
I didn't try to suggest anything of the sort, and I'd invite you to tell me where I did. I simply asked you why you thought that it was such a bad thing to teach children not to be racist or sexist, something which you still don't appear to be able to address. Please do not attempt to twist my words. I was clearer in my posting than you suggest. And if I wish to convey a particular message I will do so clearly and concisely rather than "trying to call" you something. I made it clear that I think you're a twit. No "trying" there, it's as clear as a bell. You are simply muddying the waters here because you don't like your pet theories {which you present as verifiable fact} being demolished at some length.
"I have not got a problem with other people's views or belief systems. I just wish our schools were non political places. I have already agreed with you that Tory intervention in the 80s was wrong but they paved the way for total manipulation by New Labour of the young people at many schools."
Again, begins OK but ends as conspiracy theorist crap. What do you mean by "total manipulation"?
"We are now reaping the reward of a system where the PC dogma says everyone is always right. It pervades the FALSE ALLEGATIONS culture ( if you are wronged then make an allegation - get even ) or if you have an argument then ( Pull out a knife in self defence ) you are entitled to kill or maim the other person. The figures about this do not lie."
PC dogma? Everyone is always right? I honestly can't be bothered with this paragraph, it's pointless raving and has absolutely nothing to do with the free speech of teachers.
"You asked me to explain - I did so in far more depth than is required on a forum. The fact that you did not like my answers is fine."
Can you tell me why you consider this forum {which enjoys a degree of intellectual freedom which is rare these days given the rise of the Twitter mindset} to be an unsuitable place for you to be called to account for the strange claims you regularly make here? You think, perhaps, that you should not have to justify your words because it's "only a forum"? You make big claims. And you shouldn't be surprised when asked to enlarge on them. If you think that that presents a level of intellectual rigour which is out of place on the internet - or here - then you clearly have little expectations of intelligent conversation and you insult your readers in making a case for brevity. If you have replied more fully than usual it's because usually very few people challenge you. That should not be taken for granted as universal agreement with your position or acceptance of your views, however. I for one don't think it is.
"I stand by my original statement that TEACHERS do not have free speech anymore. Or the same freedoms as other citizens in the UK. They are now "state servants" with everything that the phrase suggests."
I've already pointed out why I feel you are not qualified to make this claim or present it as a statement. Unless you are prepared to back it up. You seem reticent to do that in any relevent or meaningful way. I wonder why that is?
"Go on a teacher training course - or a social work course - and you will spend more time on silly policies than dealing with classroom issues and subject ideas. Lesson plans are king where you follow a script for your lesson ( ask any teacher ) yes an APPROVED script for your lesson. If that is not losing FREE speech then I dont know what is. ( We are not talking about a plan like in the past - this sort of plan is a word for word document which even gives "outcomes" etc."
You think it's absurd that lessons are planned? You surely don't expect me - or anyone else - to accept that teachers are no longer allowed to involve themselves in conversation with their classes, do you?
No ad lib at all? No calling up the scriptwriters when an unexpected question comes up? Anyway, whatever the situation is, the classroom was not the inspiration for the thread. You claimed that teachers no longer have freedom of speech because of something which happened on Facebook. Not quite the same thing.
"I just think you have answered why you dont know and why I do know. You are totally on the outside. I was on the inside and remain connected to the inside of education."
You don't. As has been very clearly pointed out to you. Try again. |
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david |
BR your problem is that you think you know everything and that the rest of us are thick and cannot see what you perceive as truth.
I am an educated man and find your attitude patronising. |
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BR |
My family are a family of teachers/lecturers. I spent 10 years doing it as well and have many friends doing it. Therefore your suggestion that I am only commenting from the outside is hugely wrong. I am telling you exactly what happens in schools. The "baa baa black sheep - looney left stuff" was media invention. But the propaganda aspect since 1999 has pervaded every aspect of our schools.
You accuse me of being racist and sexist because I dont agree with a Politically Correct agenda. Typical response - to try and call someone a racist or sexist because they dont agree with you. I dont even want to explain my track record in both those areas needless to say I have been a champion of breaking female stereotypes in the music industry and continue to be so.
I have not got a problem with other people's views or belief systems. I just wish our schools were non political places. I have already agreed with you that Tory intervention in the 80s was wrong but they paved the way for total manipulation by New Labour of the young people at many schools.
We are now reaping the reward of a system where the PC dogma says everyone is always right. It pervades the FALSE ALLEGATIONS culture ( if you are wronged then make an allegation - get even ) or if you have an argument then ( Pull out a knife in self defence ) you are entitled to kill or maim the other person. The figures about this do not lie.
You asked me to explain - I did so in far more depth than is required on a forum. The fact that you did not like my answers is fine.
I stand by my original statement that TEACHERS do not have free speech anymore. Or the same freedoms as other citizens in the UK. They are now "state servants" with everything that the phrase suggests.
Go on a teacher training course - or a social work course - and you will spend more time on silly policies than dealing with classroom issues and subject ideas. Lesson plans are king where you follow a script for your lesson ( ask any teacher ) yes an APPROVED script for your lesson. If that is not losing FREE speech then I dont know what is. ( We are not talking about a plan like in the past - this sort of plan is a word for word document which even gives "outcomes" etc.
I just think you have answered why you dont know and why I do know. You are totally on the outside. I was on the inside and remain connected to the inside of education. |
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Locked Out |
Thank you, David. Nice to see you're still around. |
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