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Topic History of: We now have a fascist state in Europe
Max. showing the last 5 posts - (Last post first)
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veritas |
I'm not a fan of either of the Clintons..but they are a contradictory pair.
Bill Clinton did as much damage as Ronald Reagen in dismantling the great FDR's New Deal that saw the USA middle class surge ahead and the country become the richest on earth (with better social security than Europe).
Yet Hillary was behind the plan to introduce a universal health care system in the USA after studying the world's most successful versions in Australia, New Zealand and Canada and UK. That was when the health giants united to take down Bill with the Monika debacle.
But there was Hilary celebrating on TV about the extra judicial killing of Osama Bin laden (that's if it really happened  ) and has signed on for the new bill that now gives the US government the right to execute US citizens without trial.  |
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david |
Innocent Accused wrote:
David beware the EU.I know you're a fan,but it is crumbling,and cannot do the job many eastern countries expected,ie give money and supply markets to sell and to work in.
When this happens the cracks appearing are filled by the extremes.And of course the differences between left and right become too easily blurred.
IA I am neither a fan nor a non-fan of the EU (well, slightly a fan but no way blind to its very obvious faults)
But that is not even an issue here.
What Viktor Orbán (aka 'Viktator') is doing has nothing to do with the EU.
It is all about Hungarian nationalism, or his vision of the world.
Orbán has put into the constitution things such as 'marriage is between a man and a woman' and 'an embryo's right to life starts at conception'
However much one might agree or not with those things, they should be acts of law, and not in any way be enshrined in the country's constitution, i.e. pretty much irreversible by future governments.
And let's not get started on limiting the freedom of the media. Not sure how that's the EU's fault. |
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Innocent Accused |
David beware the EU.I know you're a fan,but it is crumbling,and cannot do the job many eastern countries expected,ie give money and supply markets to sell and to work in.
When this happens the cracks appearing are filled by the extremes.And of course the differences between left and right become too easily blurred. |
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david |
Innocent Accused wrote:
Fascism? Totalitarianism sounds closer,and in that part of the world the rules were made by the left not the right.
Still always worrying,but as the EU is shown up more and more to be a political disaster expect things to get worse.
Interestingly, my Hungarian ex and I were talking about the constitution today, and he said this is not fascism but it is a form of national socialism, in that on the one hand he is taking Hungary back to many things that happened under communism, but that he is doing so with apprently very nationalistic motives.
Hungary had one of the smoothest transitions into democracy of any former soviet bloc country, and altho it had its problems, actually did rather well during the 90s, with considerable foreign investment and a fair degree of economic competence. There was also a relatively liberal air to society and politics in general, in spite of the spectre of corruption rearing its head. However, in just over a year, the Fidesz government has brought the country to the brink of bankruptcy.
The EU has nothing to do with what is happening in Hungary at the moment. In fact, during the 90s, Hungary worked very closely with the EU in setting up democratic institutions which are now being either dismantled or filled with croneys, thus removing any checks or balances that are necessary in a democratic society. Prime Minister Orbán will probably blame the EU, or blame the IMF (of which you may know I do not have a high regard), but that is a smoke screen. For some reason, Orbán seems hell-bent on cutting Hungary off from the rest of Europe and the wider world in general. I can only think that this is for nationalistic reasons.
The Hungarian people did not vote for this. It is interesting to note that although they received a big 66% of the vote at last year's election, after just one and a half years their support is down to just 18%. That, and the fact that between 100,000 and 150,000 people took to the streets of Budapest last night, says a lot.
As for Hillary Clinton, I am no fan of US foreign policy, but the letter she sent to Orbán is spot on on every count. Interestingly, as he did with a letter from Barroso recently, he has treated it as a private, personal letter, and doesn't see the need to make the contents public. But you can see a copy of her letter in the following link.
esbalogh.typepad.com/hungarianspectrum/2...88330168e4af1edc970c
(thanks for the BBC link by the way, IA.) |
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Innocent Accused |
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16387117
This was leading the BBC news page this morning,so it's not being ignored.  |
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