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Topic History of: Has Jack Straw opened-up a hornets nest ?
Max. showing the last 5 posts - (Last post first)
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In The Know |
SJB wrote:
There's another similar story here news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Nine-A...eenage_Girls_For_Sex
It's notable for how openly it's stated that it was nine Asian men who allegedly abused white girls. This has always been glossed over in the past, perhaps because it might seem *gasp* racist... Now apparently it's a good story so we will doubtless see a many more such cases of it reported in the coming weeks. And therein lies the danger of relying on the news media for our world view: we see only the "good stories" rather than forming views based on more soundly collected data.
Children as young as 10 are being sexually exploited by organised gangs of men in cities across the UK, a leading charity says.
Barnardo's says it is working with more than 1,000 children who have been groomed, abused and trafficked for money, and the problem is growing.
all above from - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12202489
The problem has NOT gone away. |
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SJB |
'Scuse format. I always cock up multi quoting. Italic quotes are from ITK.
Most men (not just Asian) like young girls - and I doubt that a bit of flattery from an Asian man would be enough to lure a grown white woman.
Those are quite sweeping generalisations. Is there anything to support them other than the anecdotal impressions we might receive from the news media or your personal view of the relative attractiveness of Asian men and adult white women?
I still think you are "making excuses" for what is criminal behaviour.
I did no such thing. My concern is primarily protecting and improving the welfare of the youngsters involved. Let me suggest a driving analogy. I'd much prefer to see fewer prosecutions for causing death by careless driving because of increased standards of driver training and testing. Similarly, I'd like to see fewer prosecutions of this nature because youths are better able to avoid the situations.
What I'm definitely NOT suggesting (but I suspect you think I am) is that young people should be educated about these risks and then if they choose to get involved anyway, the culpability of the asian gang members is therefore reduced. No, no, no.
the law is quite clear.
Yes, but the mixed messages that young people are getting from society are not so clear. And I stand by my view that the law is an inappropriate tool for regulating people's sex lives, and that a thorough sex and relationships education should enable young people to enter into sexual activity safely and happily when they feel ready, whenever and with whomever that may be.
Just because some Pakis want sex with young girls does not mean we should ignore the problem.
We should prosecute them with the full force of the law (in order to protect young people from themselves).
Prosecuting the abusers AFTER the events have occured does not protect the girls who have just been abused, you do see that don't you? Like posting a new lollipop lady on a blackspot doesn't protect the kid who was run over a week ago. I'd much prefer more preventative action. Let's not be naive: some youths start wanting to try sex pretty early and there's not much we can do to stop them, but society can help them to stay physically, emotionally and sexually safe by educating them about threats like these Pakistani gangs, not talking to strangers, always use a condom etc etc.
There's another similar story here news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Nine-A...eenage_Girls_For_Sex
It's notable for how openly it's stated that it was nine Asian men who allegedly abused white girls. This has always been glossed over in the past, perhaps because it might seem *gasp* racist... Now apparently it's a good story so we will doubtless see a many more such cases of it reported in the coming weeks. And therein lies the danger of relying on the news media for our world view: we see only the "good stories" rather than forming views based on more soundly collected data. |
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In The Know |
""This is going on in every town and city in the UK."
The words of Martin Narey, chief executive of Barnardo's, which runs a number of projects working with hundreds of sexually abused teenaged girls.
Child sexual exploitation by older men who groom them - not on the internet, but on the street - is finally getting widespread public attention.
....
Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, a Muslim youth organisation, became the first community leader to speak out in a BBC interview two years ago.
He is not afraid of raising the issue.
"Although there have been some cases of white men being involved in this sexual exploitation of young girls, most of the perpetrators are Muslim.
"There are some Muslims who think that as long as these sex gangs aren't targeting their own sisters and daughters the issue doesn't affect them... but the vast majority of Muslims find these actions abhorrent and disgusting," he said.
....
Sheila Taylor runs Safe and Sound Derby, a group that was instrumental in persuading girls to give evidence against Siddique and Liaqat.
Gang incentive
"This model of street-grooming is going on in many places. It is just that the recent spate of prosecutions against Asian men in the north of England and Midlands makes it look like it is concentrated in these communities," she said.
She believes some exploitation cases are harder than others to investigate, and is particularly concerned about the sexual abuse of young boys by older gangs of varied races.
Boys are simply less likely to talk about being raped, she says.
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All of the above taken from - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12140641 |
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In The Know |
SJB wrote:
Also, if Pakistani men can't get sex with girls of their own race, why is it necessarily young white girls who become their targets rather than older white - or black - girls?
I think the answer to that is pretty obvious !
Most men (not just Asian) like young girls - and I doubt that a bit of flattery from an Asian man would be enough to lure a grown white woman.
If you think a) like I do, then how about teaching kids at the appropriate age (just like I suggested) about the risks and responsibilities that come along with sexual behaviour. Then they'll be better able to recognise situations with dangerous or unpleasant potential and avoid them.
I still think you are "making excuses" for what is criminal behaviour. Rape is illegal !
I don't feel entitled to deem someone else's sex life acceptable or not: that area of life is a personal choice for the individual.
No it is not - the law is quite clear.
Just because some Pakis want sex with young girls does not mean we should ignore the problem.
We should prosecute them with the full force of the law (in order to protect young people from themselves). |
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SJB |
In The Know wrote:
SJB wrote:
I thought the subject was "Has Jack Straw opened-up a hornets nest?" 
It's about (mainly) Pakistani men taking advantage of young white girls (mainly because they cannot get sex with their own girls).
You seem to be turning it into a general discussion on whether sex for young people is acceptable. You seem to ignore that many of these girls are raped, and trafficked to groups of similar men.
You seem to ignore the fact that in the Muslim / Asian community a girl who "disrespected" her family / husband, would often face an "honour killing" - for doing exactly what these men expect to do with these white girls.
There is a massive difference between (all young people) experimenting sexually - and one older (alien?) culture taking gratification by exploiting, abusing and raping innocent girls from a different culture, who would most likely be killed if they happened to be the mens' own sisters or daughters.
What you say may be an accurate reflection of how the situation is, or not. Who knows without open debate of the issue? In any case... do we do a) something about it or b) nothing? If you chose a) something, then what sort of something do you suggest?
A re-read of my post should help you to see that I'm taking a broader view, and while you're at it, note that I don't ignore the things you say I'm ignoring: I'm just discussing things at a less detailed level than you are. It's usually good practice to work from the general to the specific.
Being more detailed for a moment, I'm not so sure that murder stats support the assertion that muslim girls are "often" the victims of honour killings or "most likely [to] be killed" - in the UK at least, thank goodness. This is an element of multiculturalism that can stay in Pakistan thank you very much.
Also, if Pakistani men can't get sex with girls of their own race, why is it necessarily young white girls who become their targets rather than older white - or black - girls? That doesn't seem like a straight substitution to me. Why not try to pull in a club or on the net, or take a trip to the local emporium of gentlemanly relaxation? There must be a reason over and above a simple desire for sex why these gangs take the trouble and risk to operate in the specific way they do. I'm not sure what that reason is - perhaps that's the centre of the hornets' nest.
So do we do a) something or b) nothing about it? If you think a) like I do, then how about teaching kids at the appropriate age (just like I suggested) about the risks and responsibilities that come along with sexual behaviour. Then they'll be better able to recognise situations with dangerous or unpleasant potential and avoid them. At the moment, society does very little to equip youngsters to protect themselves but punishes the abusers. Good for crime figures and headlines, but not so good for the children. I'd prefer prevention rather than shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
I don't feel entitled to deem someone else's sex life acceptable or not: that area of life is a personal choice for the individual. But I do believe that we should ensure that young people can make informed, and I hope, good choices that lead to happy relationships, rather than ending up in a kebab like poor Charlene Downes.
I hope I've been a bit clearer. |
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