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Topic History of: How nice to hear the Pope on morality
Max. showing the last 5 posts - (Last post first)
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Franz Von Papen |
No probs JK but I am sure that ITK will be displeased that you gave me the final word.
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JK2006 |
God (if he exists) knows how or why this board suddenly became a debating point for the exact precise words of a book that I respect deeply for literary merit, moral precepts and philosophical discussion but not at all as a guide to truth. Can we please consider this discussion now closed? |
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Franz Von Papen |
In The Know wrote:
Franz Von Papen wrote:
In my previous post, I showed categorically that the 'rock mass'Jesus referred to was himself and that he is the cornerstone/foundation of the Church. There are not two foundations. You seek to usurp Jesus position as founder/leader, replacing him with Peter???
This was never Jesus intention since he said in Matthew 23:10...
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Don't make others call you a leader, because you have only one leader, the Messiah.
You have not explained who the hell P Schaff is , and why we need him to re-interpret the Bible for us (or for his own reasons??)
You have not shown anything of the sort - you have introduced some spurious "translation" - which no doubt was done to justify some equally spurious and loony (US?) "church".
Jesus - in the relevant chapter was clearly speaking to Peter. In the very next verse he says that (to paraphrase) anything Peter decrees on earth will be honoured in heaven.
It is obvious that he is appointing Peter as leader of the Church (but may not be quite so obvious if you represent some loony organisation that wants to justify its own existence by re-translating / interpretting the Bible !)
I have used the scriptures in my reasoning with you (not altering them as you did),and forfeiting your integrity in the process.
Pick any translation you want but Matthew 23:10 clearly states that there is only one leader or Teacher, Christ, yet you have appointed Peter as leader! The Catholic Douay bible also says...
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, Christ.
I assume you are paraphrasing Matthew 16:19 to ascribe leadership and primacy to Peter?
The verse reads...
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
The identification of these keys logically must be based on other Scriptural information. Jesus made another reference to the subject of keys when he said to the religious leaders, versed in the Law, “You took away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not go in, and those going in you hindered!” (Luke 11:52) A comparison of this text with Matthew 23:13 indicates that the ‘going in’ referred to is with regard to entrance into “the kingdom of the heavens.” Thus, the use of the word “key” in Jesus’ statement to Peter indicated that Peter would have the privilege of initiating a program of instruction that would open up special opportunities with respect to the Kingdom of the heavens.
These verses indicate responsibility bestowed upon Peter and not promotion to Church leader which would contradict Jesus earlier statements that himself being the foundation and of the Church and that none of his disciples were to be called leader or teacher Matthew 16;18 (any translation). |
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In The Know |
Isn't it "odd" how occasionally someone - who has never posted before - suddenly pops-up ? |
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In The Know |
Franz Von Papen wrote:
In my previous post, I showed categorically that the 'rock mass'Jesus referred to was himself and that he is the cornerstone/foundation of the Church. There are not two foundations. You seek to usurp Jesus position as founder/leader, replacing him with Peter???
This was never Jesus intention since he said in Matthew 23:10...
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Don't make others call you a leader, because you have only one leader, the Messiah.
You have not explained who the hell P Schaff is , and why we need him to re-interpret the Bible for us (or for his own reasons??)
You have not shown anything of the sort - you have introduced some spurious "translation" - which no doubt was done to justify some equally spurious and loony (US?) "church".
Jesus - in the relevant chapter was clearly speaking to Peter. In the very next verse he says that (to paraphrase) anything Peter decrees on earth will be honoured in heaven.
It is obvious that he is appointing Peter as leader of the Church (but may not be quite so obvious if you represent some loony organisation that wants to justify its own existence by re-translating / interpretting the Bible !) |
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