Seeing Stuart Hall in handcuffs all over the media was a very unpleasant experience. It said something very nasty about our vindictive nature as a species. I know for certain he'll have had great comfort and sympathy from fellow inmates and officers. As a species we really do seem horrible sometimes; as individuals we are generally very nice.

Somehow the entire episode looked stage managed as though to inflict greater indignity on a frail old man. I've never met him and know very little about him but he's a human being; just like marines killing people, it makes me shudder.

Quite apart from anything else I would think the incident would make a fair trial impossible.

Although it shouldn't, it shocks me that the Police are still going after Stuart Hall with new charges. He is a broken man who will possibly die in prison, but to appease the media, they are still go after him.
In my opinion the abuse he is being subjected to is far greater than any abuse he may have inflicted on his accusers.

I don't think there's any chance of that song being covered any time soon anymore.....

It was the most unedifying spectacle yet of this Witch Hunt. It reminded me of the scenes at the end of the 'White Bear' Black Mirror - next step perhaps might be hiring Bill Baloney and a few other nutters to stone him to death, all in the name of 'ver kids'.

The CPS are really showing their true colours with this - they could go on trawling for complaints and have him face 15 charges every three months perhaps? A society in which frail old men are turned into hate figures like this is not one in which I wish to be part of.

"Barbarism Begins At Home" at Morrissey once said...

The only positive side of this is nobody else will be conned by a plea bargain ever again - they aren't content with a pound of flesh anymore. It's time someone also relayed the financial reality of being falsely accused - defending yourself for the duration of the pantomime costs circa £200-£250K. And acquittal doesn't get those costs back.

JK2006 wrote:
I would think the incident would make a fair trial impossible

Why so?

Handcuffs are standard for the moving of convicted prisoners.

And are seen regularly in the media.

Because it will now be almost impossible to find jurors who do not regard him as guilty before hearing any evidence and judges won't allow that.

Gnomo wrote:
the abuse he is being subjected to is far greater than any abuse he may have inflicted on his accusers


Would you still say that if he had raped your daughter?

Spot on Ben; the voice of the majority. As expressed in another thread, most people seem to find it impossible to give sympathy and compassion to more than one subject. It's always either/or - never both. That's what I find most worrying about the human psyche. If you feel compassion for one side it is absolutely impossible to feel compassion for the other and you cannot understand anybody who can care for both. So the only answer must be - they have no sympathy for the other victim.

A few of us, Ben, consider it possible for both to be victims of different abuse.

anyone who thinks the police do not go out of their way to demean prisoners or the accused (and Hall is innocent at this stage of new accusations) is not facing reality.

He is in his 80s and will not flee- the handcuffs are for show.


We will never know the details of what happened as he plead guilty, and remember the worst charge of actual rape wasn't proceeded with- why ?

JK2006 wrote:
A few of us, Ben, consider it possible for both to be victims of different abuse.

Fair enough. But the degree of compassion/sympathy must be stongly loaded in favour of the victim, rather than the perpetrator - who had a choice. The victim did not.

You miss the point Ben; this is a discussion about compassion and not about who doesn't deserve it or only slightly deserves it. My point being - once you start diluting health care by deciding who deserves being treated for cancer and who doesn't, you're in trouble.

"If it was your daughter"
Well, I would have thought if it was and you believed the man to be guilty, you would want it proven in court beyond all doubt. I can't see any dignity in 'daughter's alleged misery feeding the bloodthirst of an immoral mainstream media or the uneducated masses either!

I find it alarming the transparency of what is happening and why people aren't think "what if it were my grandad/father/uncle/brother/me?" Historic allegations can be made against anyone, and it is looking very much like the police and CPS are complicit in organising multiple allegations by virtue of highly publicised arrests and extensive trawling over a long period of time. The process is also a passport to bankruptcy and asset stripping (work suspended, high defence costs) and bears no resemblance to 'justice'.

Honey - accidentally dumped your last post - please post it again!

JK2006 wrote:
Honey - accidentally dumped your last post - please post it again!

It was something along the lines that children are not being protected despite all the fuss, and Stuart Hall's head almost being waved on a stick.
The system makes it very difficult to protect children from abuse even when they tell someone.
False accusers such as parents involved in custody battles have ensured that children will not be believed.

Thought it was diabolical to be honest and I agree with JK, seeing a broken elderly man in handcuffs dragged through photographers was just an example of how pathetic our media is. And it's also saying that he's automatically guilty of this next lot of charges.

Seems that TPTB really want to keep him locked up until he 'goes'.....

And remember, he hasn't been proved guilty, he's pled guilty, probably as JK says, on the advice of a solicitor or barrister saying that it's unlikely be found not guilty with this and it's best to plead guilty and get a lighter punishment. What a swizz our system is.

steveimp wrote:
Thought it was diabolical to be honest and I agree with JK, seeing a broken elderly man in handcuffs dragged through photographers was just an example of how pathetic our media is. And it's also saying that he's automatically guilty of this next lot of charges.

Seems that TPTB really want to keep him locked up until he 'goes'.....

And remember, he hasn't been proved guilty, he's pled guilty, probably as JK says, on the advice of a solicitor or barrister saying that it's unlikely be found not guilty with this and it's best to plead guilty and get a lighter punishment. What a swizz our system is.

It isn't even as if he can serve a much longer sentence than he already has. It is pointless.

honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:

It isn't even as if he can serve a much longer sentence than he already has. It is pointless.


So honey, if a chap comes to a certain age (65/75/80?) - he/she should not be prosecutable?

Or is the gravity of the crimes relevant?

And/or the ongoing impact on the lives of victims.....

Hold on, hold on.

Unsavoury yes. Agreed. Old man, already in a sad situation. Agreed. Convicted,though, remember that.

Further charges are not uncommon for the convicted............Levi Belfield? And I'm sure many more less high profile cases.

Further charges against convicted prisoners isn't new.......and isn't surely a subject of malpractice of the system, as it happens with non profile people all the time.

By all means have compassion, sympathy and empathy.....but Stuart Hall is not immune from his scenario of further charges while already in prison vs anyone else.

The charge of a show trial, witch hunt or vindictiveness is a personal perspective rather than a fact in this case..............these are just further questions to be answered in court. Nothing more, nothing less and certainly not an uncommon practice for non profile peeps........

No, the point of this thread is not whether or not he's guilty or whether or not he should face further charges - a discussion in its own right - but the obscene and prurient way his fame was manipulated. No quiet arrival where there were no cameras (back stage entrances are common) but flaunting and relishing his discomfort and smearing us with the same inhuman glee.

Bad from police and prison staff, bad from media, bad from CPS and very indicative of an unpleasant and vindictive aspect of British life.

of course it's personal and my personal view is that if someone wants 'revenge' on an 85 year old already humiliated, destroyed and in prison- for a grope 30/40 years ago...well that's a nasty vindictive person in my view.

and I hope they rot in hell.

unlike the falsehood perpetuated by police and the media, victims can also be vile people.

Ben 11 wrote:
honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:

It isn't even as if he can serve a much longer sentence than he already has. It is pointless.


So honey, if a chap comes to a certain age (65/75/80?) - he/she should not be prosecutable?

Or is the gravity of the crimes relevant?

And/or the ongoing impact on the lives of victims.....





I suspect that if the case was not high profile they would not pursue the further charges.
Ideally, every abuser should be prosecuted no matter how long afterwards (as long as the trial is fair) but when there are so many current abuse cases waiting to be investigated because of a lack of funds and manpower, I strongly feel that priority should be given to those who are in urgent need.