www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25445869

Post 9/11 , it was all Blair and Brown...........vile, callous, nasty Government that they were

Badly treating 'suspected' enemies of the state, and don't give me any of that 'they didn't know, because MI5 / 6 were out of control' rubbish.........

A Labour Government have been as bad, if not worse, in their behaviour and rule breaking compared to the current encumbants..............and yet many many people on these boards have extremly limited and selective memories

Which is why we now have this -

"An influential Muslim leader in Kenya has told Sky News that Britain is "at war" with Islam and the attack against soldier Lee Rigby was justified.

Makaburi, whose real name is Abubaker Shariff Ahmed, also warned there will certainly be more attacks against British soldiers in the future.

"This is a war," he told me. "British people need to wake up to that."

news.sky.com/story/1184837/woolwich-murd...-leader-warns-of-war

no- a Tory government would have done exactly the same and to pretend otherwise is a fantasy. Although if there is evidence of Cameron etc protesting the illegal invasion let me know.

USA & UK plc demanded the right to plunder Iraq's resources and their parliamentary servants delivered.

You see, there you go........

You can't read properly, and immediately revert to type of slagging the Tory's.....I said, quote 'A Labour Government have been as bad, if not worse, in their behaviour and rule breaking compared to the current encumbants..............' But it seesm you choose to not understand the statement and continue to peddle the bad boy Tory story over addressing the fact that your prefered options have carried out exactly the same political and morally questionable actions..

I acknowledged the foibles of the Tory's in making the point, but it seems these died in the wool Tory haters cannot bring themselves to agree as the red mist clouds their objectivity.

Makes me laugh that in arguements, the red mist leaves all debating skills behind....it just ends up being an endless stream of garbage 'facts' as they see it.......

Oh yes, and remember, Balls denies the past of being a right hand man in charge with Brown, but by the same breath states all todays woes are created in the 2.5 years this Government has been running, over the preceding 13 years of a single party.......also makes me laugh.....

Mr Reason wrote:
but it seems these died in the wool Tory haters cannot bring themselves to agree as the red mist clouds their objectivity.

Makes me laugh that in arguments, the red mist leaves all debating skills behind....it just ends up being an endless stream of garbage 'facts' as they see it.......

Oh yes, and remember, Balls denies the past of being a right hand man in charge with Brown, but by the same breath states all todays woes are created in the 2.5 years this Government has been running, over the preceding 13 years of a single party.......also makes me laugh.....

It was ALL so much better under Labour, Mr Reason .... bucketloads of cash for everyone (all on the never-never).....

Well ... never-never-land has now arrived !

In The Know wrote:
"This is a war," he told me. "British people need to wake up to that."

Mosque Fire Bombing: Former British Soldiers Jailed

Two former soldiers who fire-bombed a mosque have been sentenced to six years each.

Stuart Harness, 34, and Gavin Humphries, 37, unwittingly filmed themselves making petrol bombs before throwing them at the Grimsby Islamic Cultural Centre.

Hull Crown Court heard they threw the devices as if they were lobbing grenades, which they would have been trained to do.

news.sky.com/story/1185450/mosque-fire-b...rmer-soldiers-jailed

Mr Reason ( and usually ITK )accuses me of the very thing they are both guilty of.

Time and time again on this forum I have repeatedly said until I am blue in the face (metaphorically) that I despise the Blair faux 'Labour' government and considered them a travesty.

The history is on this board for anyone to read.

critise me all you want, question my values and the political stance I take but don't put fucking words into my mouth.

That happened about half a mile from me............however serious it was, these were local nutters, the towns full of them

hedda wrote:
Time and time again on this forum I have repeatedly said until I am blue in the face (metaphorically) that I despise the Blair faux 'Labour' government and considered them a travesty.

critise me all you want, question my values and the political stance I take but don't put fucking words into my mouth.

It's all very well, hedda ... but you support Labour (and loonyism generally), and NOW you want to distance yourself from a section of it (now that it has been thoroughly disgraced).

Amazing, isn't it, how B-Liar ever got elected !!!!!

Everyone now says "It wasn't me !" but at the time the country was pretty split over the Iraq invasion (ie half the country believed B-Liar !)

Likewise, I haven't really put words into your mouth, I have generally pointed out that the rabid nature of Tory hating after just 2.5 years is absolutely incredible when you consider 13 years of war and eventual financial chaos.........

Agreed, the Iraq / Afghanistan thing was opposed by a lot of Labour supporting people, but answer me why that hasn't been held as a long standing grudge in the way that anything Tory that happens is a never ending regugited stream of bile?

It's always welfare reforms, strike breaking, tax issues....anything that is held as Tory bashing fodder, and yet the 13 years of Labour are yearned for again by people who seem to easily forget, and by implication forgive the steam rollering, some say illegal, path to war........remember the Bulgarian press conference hastily arranged to support a UN resolution? What did Blair giveaway in that deal?

If you feel I have put effing words in your mouth, although I haven't, maybe its hit the right nerve.......just saying like, not looking to start a war........

Falklands war anyone ?

Mr Reason ..I only talk about realities and not fantasy.

Politics today- Labour & Tory have been fantasy for 20 years.

## and as an example of a Tory politician for once speaking sense : the Australian Minister for Social Services has announced Disability pension reforms (there will soon be one million DSP pensioners in Oz ) and said the BLEEDING OBVIOUS : the government will begin asking those under 20 years of age to prove their disability ( that alone will take probably 2 years) as to ask all DSP pensioners will COST TOO MUCH MONEY.

And announced another obvious : they won't target those over 60 as the chances of them every getting a job are NIL.

www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/major...i0cx12-1226788092542

that is reality. Everything else- ie : ITK's claims people can get a job and so on is fantasy.

and as in all policies it will take about 5 years to know if it is successful

hedda wrote:
as an example of a Tory politician for once speaking sense : the Australian Minister for Social Services has announced Disability pension reforms (there will soon be one million DSP pensioners in Oz ) the government will begin asking those under 20 years of age to prove their disability

So ... the new Austalian government is also having to rescue the people from failed previous Labour policies too?

You too are having an epidemic of "disability".

If the previous (UK) Labour government had remained in power, then, by now, all new born babies would be given Disability Living Allowance along with their birth certificates !

Any just like here - you have woken-up to the fact that those who work (the minority) cannot keep propping-up those who claim an ever extensive list of (self-inflicted?) "problems" and (imaginery?) "disabilities" too?

You are partly right - reform will take some time, but we are on the right road.

It is sheer lunacy to think that we could have carried on with the previous route.

In The Know wrote:
hedda wrote:
as an example of a Tory politician for once speaking sense : the Australian Minister for Social Services has announced Disability pension reforms (there will soon be one million DSP pensioners in Oz ) the government will begin asking those under 20 years of age to prove their disability

So ... the new Austalian government is also having to rescue the people from failed previous Labour policies too?

You too are having an epidemic of "disability".

If the previous (UK) Labour government had remained in power, then, by now, all new born babies would be given Disability Living Allowance along with their birth certificates !

Any just like here - you have woken-up to the fact that those who work (the minority) cannot keep propping-up those who claim an ever extensive list of (self-inflicted?) "problems" and (imaginery?) "disabilities" too?

You are partly right - reform will take some time, but we are on the right road.

It is sheer lunacy to think that we could have carried on with the previous route.

you always have to put your foot in it don't you ?

the growth of disability pensioners grew under a Tory government from 1995 to 2007 ( 13 years under the Bush/Blair worshipper Howard)as he 'massaged' unemployment figures.

Under the socialists Kevin Rudd & Julia Gillard the figures stabilised but they increased all pensions to a liveable amount.

It remains to be seen if this is not just a Tory attempt to remove people to a lower payment like the dole.

we will see in 5 years but the meaningful thing is a Tory minster has stated the obvious for once in decades- they have to be every very careful as it may cost more $$$ to implement than is saved.

Mao had his little Red Book, ITK preaches from the Fool's Guide for Tories : How To Run A Corner Grocery Store, and never expand, never increase infrastructure, never invest.

hedda wrote:
and never expand, never increase infrastructure, never invest.


... what absurd nonsense !

Who do you think built the roads in the first place?
Who built the railways?
the factories?
who financed the mines?

It certainly wasn't Labour !!!!!!!!

Whenever they got hold of anything profitable (like the railways - over 20 independent companies - ALL making a profit !) it sooned turned into a fiasco needing subsidy after subsidy, just to prop it up and keep it going !!

Only fools can turn profitable businesses into loss-making entities !

In The Know (as always) wrote:
hedda wrote:
and never expand, never increase infrastructure, never invest.


... what absurd nonsense !

Who do you think built the roads in the first place?
Who built the railways?
the factories?
who financed the mines?

It certainly wasn't Labour !!!!!!!!

Whenever they got hold of anything profitable (like the railways - over 20 independent companies - ALL making a profit !) it sooned turned into a fiasco needing subsidy after subsidy, just to prop it up and keep it going !!

Only fools can turn profitable businesses into loss-making entities !

silly stuff from a Tory in a huff.

builders build and taxpayers pay for them. Except Vodafone, Google,Facebook etc etc.

hedda wrote:
silly stuff from a Tory in a huff.


... even the mines made a profit when WE ran them !

10 minutes after nationalisation (by the loonies) and they never made a profit ever again !