www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11...-go-play-abroad.html

And a Looney Lib who doesn't talk much common sense...at all.

Yes it's a well written, honest column. And she agrees with me on Judy Murray, whose self respect should tell her to stop "dancing" please.

Clayton McDonald had sex first and texted a friend to join in would make him guilty of many things like the girl would be less sober to consent (Although the writer points out she got to the hotel ok and none of the hotel staff had noted in the media anything out of place at her arrival).So is he procuring etc? Personally I do not care as personally I think we as individuals should at least endeavour to take care and not deliberately put ourselves in dangerous situations like young, attractive. out at 4.00am and drunk. (At least without trying I am very safe on all those aspects!!!!)
But this is now the second time I have read up on this story after this guy posts a video on facebook etc. The thing I find most disturbing about this is the jury finds Ched Evans guilty and the other person not guilty. And yet the first guy was the instigator of all that subsequently happened. Although when I read the story after "I am innocent" video posting I could not believe what I was reading. Just because they are all doing it certainly can not make it right. The justice system is all over the show. And many on the Yewtree hit list had no independent witness the events ever took place at all. And most were not known (though many proclaim with no evidence they were at similar practices and yet some did not even drink alcohol or do drugs).
Thanks for pointing out the article I thought I had misread the first time around. And yes very balanced approach.

John Marsh wrote:
Clayton McDonald had sex first and texted a friend to join in would make him guilty of many things like the girl would be less sober to consent (Although the writer points out she got to the hotel ok and none of the hotel staff had noted in the media anything out of place at her arrival).So is he procuring etc? Personally I do not care as personally I think we as individuals should at least endeavour to take care and not deliberately put ourselves in dangerous situations like young, attractive. out at 4.00am and drunk. (At least without trying I am very safe on all those aspects!!!!)
But this is now the second time I have read up on this story after this guy posts a video on facebook etc. The thing I find most disturbing about this is the jury finds Ched Evans guilty and the other person not guilty. And yet the first guy was the instigator of all that subsequently happened. Although when I read the story after "I am innocent" video posting I could not believe what I was reading. Just because they are all doing it certainly can not make it right. The justice system is all over the show. And many on the Yewtree hit list had no independent witness the events ever took place at all. And most were not known (though many proclaim with no evidence they were at similar practices and yet some did not even drink alcohol or do drugs).
Thanks for pointing out the article I thought I had misread the first time around. And yes very balanced approach.


I think it is the rapists who need to modify their behaviour rather than young attractive and drunk people out at four o clock!

I have no idea why the jury convicted in this case, but in general people should be able to have sex with strangers if they feel like it without there being an assumption that the consent extends to every Tom Dick and Harry who want to join in.

possibly Evans misread signals..at best he was told it was OK, at worst he took advantage of a very drunk woman...if a genuine rape the rapist must pay the legal penalty and he has.

But if the victim did not suffer...ie : she had no memory, why do the "hang 'em high" brigade insist that she be a victim / survivor who must suffer her entire life?

It reminds me of a discussion I had with a noted and respected psychologist about memory and I told him of the time when I was a (gorgeous & loveble) 8 year old and a 6 inch house nail went through my foot and pinned me to a piece of wood/ I still have the scar.

like Jesus Christ (who was similar to me-a socialist) I was crucified. My poor mild mannered dad had to pull the nail out as the ambulance officers would not take legal responsibility.

I remember the events like yesterday ( 125 yrs ago)...but I have no memory or concept of the pain ..and as Prof explained : the mind has a brilliant capacity to wipe pain & dreadful events and it is a survival mechanism.

Yet, those who suffer sexual abuse are told time and time again in so many different ways- you will suffer your entire life !!. Is this not in itself a form of abuse?