So does this show the Italian Judicial system is also broken or that it eventually gets it right? Who knows? I haven't examined the evidence closely enough. So who did kill Meredith? Just Rudi on his own? I am so cynical about most methods and efficiency that I rather doubt it.

Yes JK.

But, at least Italy and all of mainland modern-EU don't have UK-style MASS Miscarriages of Justice on a daily basis!

I must admit I'm no expert on the miscarriages of justice in other countries and so feel uninformed and unable to make generalisations.

Well, if there were daily Miscarriages Of Justice in 300 Million population mainland modern-EU.

We can be sure that our Europhobe media would be onto them, "on a daily basis"!

Which they are not.

No; we rarely if ever even hear about UK miscarriages of justice. I'm sure other Establishment organs are just as reticent.

True, all establishments will try to cover up their corruption.

But:

1: The corrupt UK establishment via it's voracious media would never miss a chance to bash the far less corrupt, less heirarchical, (if less than perfect) mainland EU.

2: Easily accessed Webwize, the many anti-"Mass Injustices" campaigners Worldwide have no gripe against mainland EU, finally free of Fascist injustices and corruption from 70 years ago.

3: Mainland EU, where JK and thousands more victims-of-UK Injustice would never have even been investigated, let alone persecuted, prosecuted, and convicted.

www2.inbox.com/search/resultsc.aspx?q=an...amp;iwk=311&lt=3

I noticed in passing a couple of very positive things in this case in relation to the Italian judicial system.

1. A very detailed reasoning of the court's judgement, publically available. If this is standard practice then they get an A+ on court judgement transpancy and detail against the UK secret jury and hard to get trial information E-.

2. Appeals seem to be part of the course. An automatic right. Where in the UK the appeal system is controlled by ex lawyers i.e. judges. A closed shop.

Also, some glaringly downsides of the Italian justice system.

1. Beyond reasonable doubt/Innocent until proven guilty is now been introduced due to EU rulings, but not part of the system previously. In the UK- Beyond reasonable doubt/Innocent until proven has been abandonned in any case. UK does not appear to be bothered by EU rulings.

2.It is a criminal offence to question the judiciary and the police in Italy. So if the police practice their usual tactics of forged documents, forced confessions and their many other underhanded tactics, they can not be challenged. That is why questioning the DNA testing and findings in Italy is a challenge and in particular in the Knox case.

But fine tuning—the time gaps on appeal, some changes to the panel of judges making judgments in the realm of independence and more accountability.
The whole judiciary open to challenge and criticisms. These changes could make the Italian system a very good system indeed.
But at the moment as in all things the judges in Italy hold the balance of power.

This case has made me take note of the Italian system and I would like to know more. My observations are that only. Maybe someone knows a lot more and has some links that would help us learn more.

JK2006 wrote:
So does this show the Italian Judicial system is also broken or that it eventually gets it right? Who knows? I haven't examined the evidence closely enough. So who did kill Meredith? Just Rudi on his own? I am so cynical about most methods and efficiency that I rather doubt it.

I read a bit about this last year, based on what i've read I think her and her boyfriend were most definitely involved and this acquittal is down to foul play/media pressure etc.

She got lucky, but I defo think she was involved.

I've been a witness in court before for a violent crime, and I knew for a fact the guy definitely did it, but he still got 'not proven' because the jury must not have considered there to be enough evidence to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

From what I read about this case though the evidence of Amanda Knox and her boyfriends envolement was staggering. It's obvious they staged the break in and did the clean up, rather the black guy (dna, foot prints, finger prints, numerous lies to the police, no alibi etc) this at the very least makes them accessories, and who'd go to all that effort to hide a murder they had no part in?

This is just my opinion. It does seem like somethings gone very wrong with the Italian judicial system in this case, there's been lots of people convicted of murder on much less evidence.

I'm not happy for her or her boyfriend, I think they did it.

I simply don't know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the other. I KNOW I am innocent of the convictions against me - I was there (or not there). But I can only have informed opinions on other cases and I simply don't know enough about this.

JK2006 wrote:
I simply don't know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the other. I KNOW I am innocent of the convictions against me - I was there (or not there). But I can only have informed opinions on other cases and I simply don't know enough about this.

I don't suppose anyone knows 100% what happened unless they where present/the accused or with the accused at the time.

The thing I was a witness to I do know definitely happened because I seen it with my own eyes, and he still got 'not proven', would of been about a 6 years sentence if he'd been found guilty.

Which kind of shows you how very reluctantly they seem to be to wrongly convict people usless under some kind of pressure from the public, media etc i.e in the cases of the Guilford four, Birmingham six etc after the IRA bombings and in the case of many high profile sex assault/abuse/rape cases etc (and with those sorts of cases in general these days).

The media and feminists etc act outraged if someone is let off or given anything remotely like a light sentence, and the benefit of the doubt, and innocent until proven guilty concept, that even a lot of murders get, is out the window.

I think what's happened with the Amanda Knox thing is just like what's happening to a lot of other people in Britain with high profile sex abuse cases but in reverse. Her parents hired a PR company and they really went to town trying to persuade the public she was innocent and the victim of a miscarriage of justice, they even tried to make it a feminist issue, she's had the support of politicians and the Italian judiciary felt pressured to let her go.

Definitely, from what i'd read I think a lot of other people have been convicted of murder on far less evidence.

This gives a good summery of the evidence against her and her boyfriend: themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Evidence_List

There was a documentry on the tv about it last year too.

Anon wrote:
Definitely, from what i'd read I think a lot of other people have been convicted of murder on far less evidence.

This gives a good summery of the evidence against her and her boyfriend: themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Evidence_List

This case highlights that even where the evidence gathered, suspects highlighted and a definite crime, everything can become very confused. Evidence presented, tainted, misread and out of context. Guede was not in the frame until his DNA showed up.
Guede initial shoe print was pinned on Sollecito. And Guede initial Skype conversation when first arrested in Germany gave no mention of Knox in the house.
Extract from list link given by Anon -
Fingerprints

Ms. Kercher’s fingerprints were found on Knox’s closet door.
Knox’s fingerprints were only found on a glass in the kitchen. None of her fingerprints were found in her own bedroom, or elsewhere in the cottage. Sollecito’s fingerprints were on Ms. Kercher’s bedroom door and on the inside face of Laura Mezzetti’s door. Guede’s fingerprint was found in Ms. Kercher’s bedroom.
My comments
Before forensics got to the house quite a number of people had tramped through the house. Sollecito finger prints on door fits with him trying to open the bedroom door.
And although I have never seen this listing until today, the fact that it states Knox's finger prints not found in her bedroom seems to highlight the inadequacies of all this evidence, out of context or relying to heavily on some aspects can mislead.

And just another note. The breakin was presumed faked from the outset so no real forensics done. And the DNA on the bra clasp was tested after the clasp was taken from the room 46 days later.
To me this case has always had reasonable doubt whatever one believes about Knox and Sollecito


For trials of historic sexual abuse it shows that in many if not in most cases how can there ever be a case with proper evidence when a current case can get so distorted with everything to available including DNA.

There's way more to it than that, too much to get into just now. I think they're guilty, but a good lawyer has managed to present an alternative scenario which has left just enough room for reasonable doubt. Plus there was the media and political pressure, she had the backing of politicians, journalists a huge PR campaign paid for by her parents.

Why did Solletio lie about Meredith being round his and pricking her with the suspected murder weapon, on which traces of her DNA where found, if he didn't have anything to hide and wasn't scared something might be found there? Why would he have felt the need to account for something possibly being found there in advance? (Meredith's friends said she had never been there, including Knox I think). And both of them gave several false and conflicting accounts of where the had been that evening, Knox's bloody foot prints cleaned up with luminol in the 'break in' room, Knox's blood mixed with Meredith's in the bathroom, in which Knox herself had admitted had not been there before that night, Knox falsely (and knowingly falsely) accusing her boss, and at the same time not only admitting to having been within ear shot when Meredith was killed, but also describing a scream that was verified by another witness, the list goes on and the whole thing seems a little bit suspect actually...

I think they did it but, even with all the compelling evidence, it still just wasn't enough to get a conviction in the face of a good defence, huge PR propaganda campaign, media pressure, political pressure etc...

This woman says what I think:

Yes it clearly is a very complicated and odd case. Even on here I've seen details I didn't know about.

From Rupe's Right wing Fox mock shock at Foxy's alleged fake acquittal.

We should now get the same Rupe rants for Assange falsely held by Brits at Yanks' bidding?

Don't hold yer breath.

johnpilger.com/articles/the-siege-of-jul...pecial-investigation

I agree with Patrick Lumumba:

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/28/...edith-kercher-murder

This can't be real surely?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europ...r-prison-ordeal.html

Anon wrote:
I agree with Patrick Lumumba:

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/28/...edith-kercher-murder

This can't be real surely?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europ...r-prison-ordeal.html

Patrick Lumumba was originally a victim of the Italian style of policing. Typical of most places in the world in any case.

Amanda's barmaids job on the 1 November was cancelled by text from Patrick Lumumba because he had no customers. I understand that night he he one only that night who later came forward to give him an alibi. Which he only needed because of how the police operate. So you can deduce from that his business may not of been doing too hot. But possibly like many he gets paid for stories and so on.
Second thing by the court allowing three of the four years served then the paper is most likely wrong on the millions because the court has already taken measures to cancel most of that out.
I advise people to not believe everything they read or at least to re translate it.
I suggest reading sites and books from both camps if you want to find the truth.
I throw in just one example. The guilty camp point to the DNA found on the one only knife tested to my knowledge from the two locations ever collected. Firstly the first appeal court judge appointed two independent scientist to relook and they concluded that the test was in short inconclusive. Myself noted the knife was retested again in the last appeal and Knox's DNA was found only. But the question is kinda obvious, my question that is, if the knife was really used in the murder surely the strongest DNA test positive would be Meredith's. That's what logic suggests to me.
I am trying very hard not to be one sided. And I do find even when one side is right it is easy to dismiss or over state your side.
Finally within 90 days the judges will supply details of their reasoning so let's wait to then.
All I have seen of the Italian judicial system in this trial is they do not careless about what others think anywhere just like our own UK appeal judges in the UK. In the UK if we woke up tomorrow and the UK Supreme court said that all historial sex cases need reviewing and possibly 1000's will be released because they acknowledge they were imprisoned illegally as the guilt was not proven beyond reasonable doubt. Would it happen.

Less than logical John Marsh noted, "if the knife was really used in the murder surely the strongest DNA test positive would be Meredith's. That's what logic suggests to me."

Surely the victim's DNA WAS on the knife, but the tests were to find NON-victim DNA?

Best comment so far - John's when he suggests we wait until the Judges' reasons are made available.

John Marsh wrote:
my question that is, if the knife was really used in the murder surely the strongest DNA test positive would be Meredith's. That's what logic suggests to me.

Would it if it had been thoroughly cleaned with bleach after the attack (and I think investigators thought that it had) and Amanda had been the last person to handle it (for whatever reason) after it had been cleaned with bleach?

I think I already mentioned the lie that the boyfriend Sollecito told to try and account for the possibility of Meredith's DNA being found there, but apparently the same knife fits the outline of a knife in blood on Meredith's bed sheet:


truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comme...vides_further_proof/

Of course we'll just need to wait and see what happens with this. I doubt she'd get millions compensation, and it will probably be impossible to re try her anyway. But i'll keep my ears out for more being said about this case...