I heard this from a highly credible source ages ago.

The fact the George Pell..extremely Conservative..was chosen by a "left wing" Pope who believed in his integrity to clean out vested interests including the Mafia who are entrenched in Vatican finances.

This story is actually quite fair in pointing out the flaws of the so-called 'evidence' in the Pell case..

and note..even though the complainant was believed..Pell was also convicted of abusing a boy who repeatedly said it did not happen.

www.news.com.au/national/some-people-can...c036219947fed454b832

"“I was very surprised by the verdict. In fact, I was devastated,” Father Brennan wrote in an opinion piece in The Australian.

He noted that Pell’s defence barrister, Robert Richter QC had poked holes in the complainant’s evidence but ultimately the jury had still found the Cardinal guilty.

“Although the complainant got all sorts of facts wrong, the jury must have believed that Pell did something dreadful to him,” Father Brennan wrote."

For whom the Pell tolls?

Thanks for that information and the link. I haven't been following this, so it is most interesting. Is there any information publicly available about the complainant? Or were there two complainants, one alive and one dead? Confused...

Jo wrote:
Thanks for that information and the link. I haven't been following this, so it is most interesting. Is there any information publicly available about the complainant? Or were there two complainants, one alive and one dead? Confused...

obviously the one complainant alive has anonymity. The other was never a complainant.

The other one Pell was convicted of abusing never said Pell abused him. he denied to his mother and numerous other people that Pell abused him.

He was a drug addict and if anyone was going to accuse for compensation..very generous..up to $100,000 this man might have but he denied over and over that Pell abused him.

Nonetheless Pell was found guilty of abusing him.

Not even a "recovered memory".

Despite Pell's QC punching numerous holes in the living complainant's tale the jury decided guilt.

I cannot see how the verdict could stand with Appeal Court judges.

I have never in all my life seen one man so vilified for 2 decades by a media determined to find him guilty.

But they are celebrating to day and calling for any Pell supporter to be lynched.

Thanks for explaining that. The whole thing sounds absurd and cruel.

But Hedda. Pell has been found guilty of abusing 5 different boys.

One more than once.


These 13 year olds (mostly) have families, presumably - who put the facts and evidence through the due process of law.

Which found him guilty - after peculiarly long and secret court hearings.


Pell has the opportunity to appeal.

However, he will get a judgement on Wednesday...

I haven't followed the case closely, but there seems to be a view in the ether that Pell was probably not guilty, but, hey, he's a bad guy anyway, so who cares.

That's not justice. It's a perversion of it.

Thanks for that link, Jo. I guess you will know that the author of that piece—Ralph Cipriano—produced another excellent piece with John Ziegler on the Penn State debacle. In case you've not seen it, you'll find it here after a long introduction from Ziegler: The Sad Story of Happy Valley

Interesting too that your article mentions the role of Rolling Stone writer Sabrina Rubin Erdely in bringing this case to public attention. She was involved in promoting the University of Virginia gang-rape hoax.

There seem to be people who desperately want the most awful things to be true...or perhaps that's too generous an interpretation.

Barney wrote:
Pell has been found guilty of abusing 5 different boys


Correction: two boys, on five occasions*

Barney wrote:
But Hedda. Pell has been found guilty of abusing 5 different boys.

One more than once.


These 13 year olds (mostly) have families, presumably - who put the facts and evidence through the due process of law.

Which found him guilty - after peculiarly long and secret court hearings.


Pell has the opportunity to appeal.

However, he will get a judgement on Wednesday...






From what Hedda and others have stated and provided newspaper reports I do NOT see 5 boys but one boy only. A second boy was included in the 5 charges but as Hedda said he died and denied the story. I am not going to say I am correct just from reading and it is all a little mixed up as per usual but not so bad this time.

There were two trial efforts to get a conviction. And as I understand the emotional pressure is greater on a second jury at a retrial not to fail to be unanimous (majority depending jurisdiction). That is the jury immediately feels the need to agree what ever way it goes as opposed to a hang jury.

Also jurors often fail in their duty by one simple test of placing themselves facing a trial on the same flimsy evidence. I would be surprised to find one juror would be happy with justice if it was them. I doubt even you Barney would feel it was justice if it was you convicted by a jury on such evidence. To aid thinking PG joined in the JS witch hunt but was not shouting with sheer joy and happiness when it came his turn. Why not?

No in this trial it is clear that each section failed and acted in a criminal manner (Perverting the course of justice). The judge was wrong in his directions. No mention that a witness could lie only that courage to finally come forward and a slight possibility that an event could happen equated to the accusation been true. It is not logical reasoning but misdirection. The police are suppose to carry out their duty for all victims. That includes the accused been a victim of a possible lie and the complainant not a victim but the criminal. These investigations to fulfill the duty have to be conducted both ways. The media owe a duty to the public not to manipulate and so on. Politicians are duty bound to serve their constituents thus intervene for justice not for sensation.

The list of those who failed in this trial goes on and each section acting criminally needs a hell a lot of explaining by whoever can do it to attempt to enlighten the very few who may listen to how criminal the various parties have been acting. Unfortunately what is happening is we normally only end up with a mindless lynch mob, note word mindless and word mob.

I'm afraid, Barney, your very major mistake betrays an agenda. Please, no more anti-Catholic bias. We all know child abuse exists. Everywhere. Most of us suspect it is nowhere near as bad as the media likes to paint it (but it's a good story). We suspect the False Allegations Industry is a less good story (although perhaps getting rather more attention on here in ratio, compared to the opposite view - but that is understandable).

My mistake was a genuine one.

As soon as I noticed it, I corrected it myself - without it being pointed out.


Errors are rarely corrected by posters on here - genuine or not.

Barney wrote:
But Hedda. Pell has been found guilty of abusing 5 different boys.

One more than once.


These 13 year olds (mostly) have families, presumably - who put the facts and evidence through the due process of law.

Which found him guilty - after peculiarly long and secret court hearings.


Pell has the opportunity to appeal.

However, he will get a judgement on Wednesday...





Jesus Christ this examples of the sheer ignorance being spouted.

George Pell was found guilty of abusing 2 13 year old boys. Five charges made up him supposedly forcing them to give him oral sex (in an open door Vestry with dozens of parishioners mingling outside and despite a highly respected Verger saying he never left Pell's side.

They would be nearly 40 now except one died.

The one that died told his mother (and others) he had never been abused in the Catholic Church (or anywhere else) by a Catholic priest.

Pell's name was never mentioned in those denials because Pell had not been charged with any crimes.

The man that died never reported any abuse to police.

Pell was convicted on the say so of the other one who complained in 2015 once police had drip fed the gutter tabloids.

Pell was convicted of abusing a person who denied he had been abused and never complained about it.

Explain that one please.

And go and learn the facts. I know your hatred for the Catholic Church is extreme but that's your problem.

I have no interest in any Church. I like the concept of Justice though.

New facts emerge daily as it now seems the Vestry where the complainanit cvlaims abuse happened required a swipe card to access.

When questioned on this the ONE complainant claimed the door was open then.

Which meant dozens f people outside were in full of a six foot six giant of man forcing 2 boys to give him oral sex (even though one claimed nothing ever happened).

No wonder several jurors who were in the first case which was discharged burst into tears at his conviction.

If you refer to my hatred, Hedda, of the Catholic church - I simply don't have one. However, I feel that all child abusers - whatever organisation or cult they are (or aren't) a member of - should be brought to justice.

Francis now has admitted widespread and worldwide abuse by Catholic clergy - over decades - and also that the church covered it up, and often made payoffs.

These are the admissions of a strong and seemingly fearless man. Now, two things must happen - perhaps as a result of the recently concluded Vatican summit.


1. Files and information, held by the church on matters of abuse (previously withheld), must be released to the relevant authorities

2. Just as important, those falsely accused must be quickly identified and exonerated - undoubtedly, there's a significant element


In the overall scheme of the things, Pell is irrelevant.

What the church does next is not.

Barney wrote:
My mistake was a genuine one.

As soon as I noticed it, I corrected it myself - without it being pointed out.


Errors are rarely corrected by posters on here - genuine or not.





We dont have time to correct mistakes. You are on it before we have pressed "send"

Misa wrote:
Thanks for that link, Jo. I guess you will know that the author of that piece—Ralph Cipriano—produced another excellent piece with John Ziegler on the Penn State debacle. In case you've not seen it, you'll find it here after a long introduction from Ziegler: The Sad Story of Happy Valley

Interesting too that your article mentions the role of Rolling Stone writer Sabrina Rubin Erdely in bringing this case to public attention. She was involved in promoting the University of Virginia gang-rape hoax.

There seem to be people who desperately want the most awful things to be true...or perhaps that's too generous an interpretation.
Thanks for this info, Misa. I wasn't aware of those points and your link looks interesting (doesn't work for some reason, but is presumably this).

It is odd that there are not only those who, understandably, trust the justice system and assume it always gets it right but also those who seem to really want horrible abuse stories to be true. Perhaps it's a modern day version of sitting round the fire listening to ghost stories. Or, less generously, some people who make a big thing of finding child abuse abhorrent, as if it did decent people didn't, are actually compensating for deriving enjoyment from thinking about it?

Sorry about the dodgy link, Jo. You've found he right one. Many similarities with JS, even the same initials – Jerry Sandusky, Jimmy Savile! It all played out around the same time. I'll be inerested to know what you make of it. The University of Virginia case is well worth a look too, if you get chance.

I do suspect that what you say about ghost stories is true. If we no longer really believe anything can exist beyond the material world, ghosts have little power to scare. But monsters hiding in plain sight seem to fulfil the same role. Perhaps they're the same stuff by a different name.

I can only think that those so keen to believe their fellow human beings are capable of the most hideous crimes must have pretty dark inner lives of their own.

I'll give Barney his due..he corrected his mistake.

But it does example, perhaps unintentionally how mistakes are made.

I still think Barney has a thing about the Catholic Church. He may have good reasons to.

I've never attended a Church service in my life for any personal reason except to go to weddings etc.

What alarms me is the sheer hatred being directed at Pell's supporters. his barrister and anyone who dares question The Narrative.

But what's disturbing is where that hatred is coming from.

It's coming from well known journalists. human right's lawyers who have commented many times on how injustices can occur during a trial.

Below is an article by one of Rupert Murdoch's favoured hacks. I've tangled with her in the past but she is pretty spot on, in my view.

Credible people are demanding she be hung drawn and quartered.

Pell's 10 pals who wrote references are being attacked mercilessly including 2 former Prime Ministers, neither of who I would vote for.

MPs (opposition), lawyers & hacks are attacking them and the usual taunts happen.."hope Pell is raped in jail"..I always ponder on that one when those who apparently think Justice has been done nonetheless demand a serious crime be committed.

A few years ago a prominent NSW Chief Prosecutor was convicted of possessing child abuse material.

12 people, including a very dear friend of mine, a well known University professor wrote references for him.

News Corp went in for the kill and attacked them...eventually News Corp realised it was a mistake and paid each one of them $40,000 in compo to avoid libel suits.

But it's happening again (not news Corp)..well known people, lawyers etc.

Pell did not apply for bail today but too the contrary I reckon he may well be like JK in jail..I reckon (he is reputedly an intensely kind man) he will be extremely well-liked by other prisoners..help them out and so on.

re the Miranda Devine article she makes very valid points..including about Lindy Chamberlain the "Dingo Took My Baby" woman.

I was in the UK at the time but followed the case.

Lindy was railroaded in the most vicious campaign possible by the media and public.

I met her about 6 years ago. Very sweet lady but when she was young she had a rather akward appearance not unlike the McCanns who are not very camera friendly.

The McCanns get the same treatment.

In 2001 the notorious Peter Falconio murder happened in the Northern territory.

His girlfriend Joanne Lees again was not media savvy or camera friendly.

The media and the public were gearing up with rumours flying thick & fast she had murdered Falconio.

Only by sheer luck was the real killer found and convicted.