Do correct me if I'm wrong but..

the clamor over the European elections is all over the place.

One downside is that Widdecombe, who at times says very sensible things, will endlessly appear on the BBC prattling on with nonsense boring people witless.

The Brexit Party seems to have hoovered up the redundant UKIP vote after UKIP threw the switch to Vaudeville so not much change there.

But despite all the hand wringing by many over Labour's declining EU vote, overwhelmingly people have voted for remain parties not Brexit (but that won't stop the BBC treating Fargae like he's terribly important)...

there are shrill calls for Jeremy Corbyn to go because of the declining Labour EU vote (on a sadly small overall turnout) but..

In a general election are people going to vote for polices in the UK which they believe will benefit them..or are they gong to vote for parties on the strength of their support for 1. Brexit 2.Remain 3 Hard Brexit 4 Soft Brexit and so on?

# and the rumours the Lib Dems have had a remarkable resurgence are greatly exaggerated..in a General Election will people just forget how they aided the Tories in their most repressive policies? (those who like support those policies of course will be happy but..)

I say people will vote for things like nationalizing railways, massive council housing building, attacking tax havens etc etc or they'll vote for the opposite and Brexit won't come into it.

The media now has Brexit firmly embedded into every aspect of British life when it's not..such as giving Nigel Farage amazing endless free publicity..

hedda wrote:
Do correct me if I'm wrong but..

the clamor over the European elections is all over the place.

One downside is that Widdecombe, who at times says very sensible things, will endlessly appear on the BBC prattling on with nonsense boring people witless.

The Brexit Party seems to have hoovered up the redundant UKIP vote after UKIP threw the switch to Vaudeville so not much change there.

But despite all the hand wringing by many over Labour's declining EU vote, overwhelmingly people have voted for remain parties not Brexit (but that won't stop the BBC treating Fargae like he's terribly important)...

there are shrill calls for Jeremy Corbyn to go because of the declining Labour EU vote (on a sadly small overall turnout) but..



I don't believe that people overwhelmingly voted for remain parties, if you factor in the the fact that the tories and labour stood on a manifesto to honour the referendum, and that people vote for the Greens, Plaid Cymru, and SNP for reasons other than Brexit, than this is not a fair reflection.
As for a declining eu vote for Labour, there is no indication that the 63% of Labour constituencies that supported leave, would not still vote the leave. Bolsover, Sunderland, and Sheffield all voted for the Brexit Party. I think that that Labour would be making a massive mistake if they went full on to support a second referendum, thus ignoring the voters in Labour heartlands who voted to Leave.

hedda wrote:
Do correct me if I'm wrong but..

the clamor over the European elections is all over the place.

One downside is that Widdecombe, who at times says very sensible things, will endlessly appear on the BBC prattling on with nonsense boring people witless.

The Brexit Party seems to have hoovered up the redundant UKIP vote after UKIP threw the switch to Vaudeville so not much change there.

But despite all the hand wringing by many over Labour's declining EU vote, overwhelmingly people have voted for remain parties not Brexit (but that won't stop the BBC treating Fargae like he's terribly important)...

there are shrill calls for Jeremy Corbyn to go because of the declining Labour EU vote (on a sadly small overall turnout) but..

In a general election are people going to vote for polices in the UK which they believe will benefit them..or are they gong to vote for parties on the strength of their support for 1. Brexit 2.Remain 3 Hard Brexit 4 Soft Brexit and so on?

# and the rumours the Lib Dems have had a remarkable resurgence are greatly exaggerated..in a General Election will people just forget how they aided the Tories in their most repressive policies? (those who like support those policies of course will be happy but..)

I say people will vote for things like nationalizing railways, massive council housing building, attacking tax havens etc etc or they'll vote for the opposite and Brexit won't come into it.

The media now has Brexit firmly embedded into every aspect of British life when it's not..such as giving Nigel Farage amazing endless free publicity..

I'd be far happier having her all over the silly political programmes nobody watches....rumours of her in a slinky bikini or similar,in a prime time entertainment programme are too scary to even contemplate!

She was displaying a large Christian fish symbol brooch on that blue jacket she had on recently.
news.sky.com/video/ann-widdecombe-only-t...iver-brexit-11729316

"Look at me, being a Christian". Probably needs to do that, as you'd never guess she was one from her repellant views about women, gays, death penalty, etc.

Yes Jo, she's a devout Christian - so what ?

Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

Jo wrote:
Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

A while ago Ann converted from CofE to Rome...I think her brother may have been a Bishop or similar...

....my family were strong Christians,but non conformist...we were taught to reach out,and not be judgemental....I only know Ann's public stance on things....that is open to debate depending on ones own political beliefs....she's been reasonably successful....and was unlucky in her timings...she was rising fast,at the time the Tories sank in the 90s...by the time they rose again she was starring in 'Strictly.....an reasonable comeback into politics...in her 70s....'

Jo wrote:
Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

I cant think of a more subtle way to express your faith than a tiny fish brooch or cross.

I rather like her; she has said some silly things but also some really sensible things (on prisons for example). She's very much on side regarding false allegations.

JK2006 wrote:
I rather like her; she has said some silly things but also some really sensible things (on prisons for example). She's very much on side regarding false allegations.

Now that I never knew...and I'm sure may surprise many people who remember her as Shadow Home Secretary ...looking tough...while Hague the Vague struggled with Tony Blair

Having her portrait hung at the Carlton, even if placed in one of the prime spots opposite the bar, clearly means nothing to her.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/219318...he-Carlton-Club.html

Silent Minority wrote:
Jo wrote:
Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

A while ago Ann converted from CofE to Rome...I think her brother may have been a Bishop or similar...

....my family were strong Christians,but non conformist...we were taught to reach out,and not be judgemental....I only know Ann's public stance on things....that is open to debate depending on ones own political beliefs....she's been reasonably successful....and was unlucky in her timings...she was rising fast,at the time the Tories sank in the 90s...by the time they rose again she was starring in 'Strictly.....an reasonable comeback into politics...in her 70s....'

I'm an atheist, my children are devout Christians and the mother to him is agonistic. We I'm over we do talk about religion but we don't push agenda's we respect opinions. I'm even polite to Jehovah Witnesses.

I do remember my daughter hunted her first deer, I never heard her swear so many times. Even the ducks tutted and waddled off in disgust.

Green Man wrote:
Silent Minority wrote:
Jo wrote:
Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

A while ago Ann converted from CofE to Rome...I think her brother may have been a Bishop or similar...

....my family were strong Christians,but non conformist...we were taught to reach out,and not be judgemental....I only know Ann's public stance on things....that is open to debate depending on ones own political beliefs....she's been reasonably successful....and was unlucky in her timings...she was rising fast,at the time the Tories sank in the 90s...by the time they rose again she was starring in 'Strictly.....an reasonable comeback into politics...in her 70s....'

I'm an atheist, my children are devout Christians and the mother to him is agonistic. We I'm over we do talk about religion but we don't push agenda's we respect opinions. I'm even polite to Jehovah Witnesses.

I do remember my daughter hunted her first deer, I never heard her swear so many times. Even the ducks tutted and waddled off in disgust.

You must be so proud as a father.
Tolerance is indeed a great thing to have...sadly I'm in need of more practice.
Good evening GM...

Silent Minority wrote:
Green Man wrote:
Silent Minority wrote:
Jo wrote:
Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

A while ago Ann converted from CofE to Rome...I think her brother may have been a Bishop or similar...

....my family were strong Christians,but non conformist...we were taught to reach out,and not be judgemental....I only know Ann's public stance on things....that is open to debate depending on ones own political beliefs....she's been reasonably successful....and was unlucky in her timings...she was rising fast,at the time the Tories sank in the 90s...by the time they rose again she was starring in 'Strictly.....an reasonable comeback into politics...in her 70s....'

I'm an atheist, my children are devout Christians and the mother to them is agonistic. We I'm over we do talk about religion but we don't push agenda's we respect opinions. I'm even polite to Jehovah Witnesses.

I do remember my daughter hunted her first deer, I never heard her swear so many times. Even the ducks tutted and waddled off in disgust.

You must be so proud as a father.
Tolerance is indeed a great thing to have...sadly I'm in need of more practice.
Good evening GM...

It works both ways, I had to earn the respect from my children and vice versa. I missed a huge deal of their childhood, because I didn't know about them, my ex atthr time wrote to me out the blue. I got the first plane to America.

I'm greatful of my ex and her ex boyfriend for rasing them and when I'm over there we are still civil and she puts me for the duration.

I even gave him a man-hug, told him that I'm not angry.

Good evening SM.

Green Man wrote:
Silent Minority wrote:
Green Man wrote:
Silent Minority wrote:
Jo wrote:
Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

A while ago Ann converted from CofE to Rome...I think her brother may have been a Bishop or similar...

....my family were strong Christians,but non conformist...we were taught to reach out,and not be judgemental....I only know Ann's public stance on things....that is open to debate depending on ones own political beliefs....she's been reasonably successful....and was unlucky in her timings...she was rising fast,at the time the Tories sank in the 90s...by the time they rose again she was starring in 'Strictly.....an reasonable comeback into politics...in her 70s....'

I'm an atheist, my children are devout Christians and the mother to them is agonistic. We I'm over we do talk about religion but we don't push agenda's we respect opinions. I'm even polite to Jehovah Witnesses.

I do remember my daughter hunted her first deer, I never heard her swear so many times. Even the ducks tutted and waddled off in disgust.

You must be so proud as a father.
Tolerance is indeed a great thing to have...sadly I'm in need of more practice.
Good evening GM...

It works both ways, I had to earn the respect from my children and vice versa. I missed a huge deal of their childhood, because I didn't know about them, my ex atthr time wrote to me out the blue. I got the first plane to America.

I'm greatful of my ex and her ex boyfriend for rasing them and when I'm over there we are still civil and she puts me for the duration.

I even gave him a man-hug, told him that I'm not angry.

Good evening SM.

What a fascinating story, GM. How long ago did all this happen?

Are they twins? I suppose they must be, or you would know about one of them at least.
Identical?

honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:
Green Man wrote:
Silent Minority wrote:
Green Man wrote:
Silent Minority wrote:
Jo wrote:
Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

A while ago Ann converted from CofE to Rome...I think her brother may have been a Bishop or similar...

....my family were strong Christians,but non conformist...we were taught to reach out,and not be judgemental....I only know Ann's public stance on things....that is open to debate depending on ones own political beliefs....she's been reasonably successful....and was unlucky in her timings...she was rising fast,at the time the Tories sank in the 90s...by the time they rose again she was starring in 'Strictly.....an reasonable comeback into politics...in her 70s....'

I'm an atheist, my children are devout Christians and the mother to them is agonistic. We I'm over we do talk about religion but we don't push agenda's we respect opinions. I'm even polite to Jehovah Witnesses.

I do remember my daughter hunted her first deer, I never heard her swear so many times. Even the ducks tutted and waddled off in disgust.

You must be so proud as a father.
Tolerance is indeed a great thing to have...sadly I'm in need of more practice.
Good evening GM...

It works both ways, I had to earn the respect from my children and vice versa. I missed a huge deal of their childhood, because I didn't know about them, my ex atthr time wrote to me out the blue. I got the first plane to America.

I'm greatful of my ex and her ex boyfriend for rasing them and when I'm over there we are still civil and she puts me for the duration.

I even gave him a man-hug, told him that I'm not angry.

Good evening SM.

What a fascinating story, GM. How long ago did all this happen?

Are they twins? I suppose they must be, or you would know about one of them at least.
Identical?

Yes they are twins and one boy and one girl. My Irish lady friend is very understanding. She knows I'm over there and knows I wouldn't go back to my ex.

Her dad helped get a work visa for couple of years, so I could avoid The Troubles.

Green Man wrote:
Silent Minority wrote:
Green Man wrote:
Silent Minority wrote:
Jo wrote:
Oh, I don't doubt that she has all the rituals down pat, but that doesn't make her a Christian, in my opinion. It's her attitudes and how she treats others that count and she fails on that score, in my view. Like others who feel the need to ostentatiously point up their alleged good points, honesty, morality, etc. (e.g. "I think my moral compass is high" (MWT)), I think she's a fraud.

A while ago Ann converted from CofE to Rome...I think her brother may have been a Bishop or similar...

....my family were strong Christians,but non conformist...we were taught to reach out,and not be judgemental....I only know Ann's public stance on things....that is open to debate depending on ones own political beliefs....she's been reasonably successful....and was unlucky in her timings...she was rising fast,at the time the Tories sank in the 90s...by the time they rose again she was starring in 'Strictly.....an reasonable comeback into politics...in her 70s....'

I'm an atheist, my children are devout Christians and the mother to them is agonistic. We I'm over we do talk about religion but we don't push agenda's we respect opinions. I'm even polite to Jehovah Witnesses.

I do remember my daughter hunted her first deer, I never heard her swear so many times. Even the ducks tutted and waddled off in disgust.

You must be so proud as a father.
Tolerance is indeed a great thing to have...sadly I'm in need of more practice.
Good evening GM...

It works both ways, I had to earn the respect from my children and vice versa. I missed a huge deal of their childhood, because I didn't know about them, my ex atthr time wrote to me out the blue. I got the first plane to America.

I'm greatful of my ex and her ex boyfriend for rasing them and when I'm over there we are still civil and she puts me for the duration.

I even gave him a man-hug, told him that I'm not angry.

Good evening SM.

Thanks for sharing,a moving story indeed.