www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk


Currently, our National Debt is around £2.20 trillion; that is £2,200,000,000,000.

Fifteen years ago, in 2005, it was £467 billion - £467,000,000,000.

There has been many reasons - including having to sort our banks out, at a cost of £500 billion.

But the main reason is slow economic growth necessitating further borrowing - just to pay our bills.

Just like we'll have to do to pay for the Coranavirus - and other - measures announced today.

Never, in our history (even war times) have we ever needed this level of borrowings.

Or taken on so much debt - at such an alarming rate.


Rarely do we have an annual budget surplus - Thatcher was the last Tory PM to have one.

Perhaps it's as well that, currently, borrowing is so cheap.


For the average person to count to 2.2 trillion would take about 65,000 years...

Or to bring our Debt into perspective regarding our average increases - over the past 15 years

These equate to the cost of our NHS (in the year to March 2019) being added on every year; £115 billion


UK plc is akin to an individual using mortgage increases to pay for his daily existence

Fine for a while (unemployment, illness etc.) - but, after decades, something has to give


Coranavirus and Brexit costs may have brought that 'something' just a bit closer

As has our inability to make ends meet - by earning more than we spend...

Soon to be added to our National Dedt will be the £2billion cost of Brexit - and the projected payments for HS2, probably around £80 billion.

Vaugue and unverifiable guesstimates fo Coranavirus expenses are anticipated to exceed £100 billion - so our Debt will soon be on the way to £3T.

Bearing in mind we have yet to negotiate new post-EU trade agreements - and are already forking out £1 billion, every week, in interest on the Debt.

Being a regular poster - on this fine JK site - I occasionally post about complicated (to me) financial government matters.

Like the National Debt, budget deficits - and their consequences.

In the hope that someone will say 'good points/you're right' - 'total rubbish, because' - or tell me something I missed.

Often happens! As, for example, my posts - on this thread - are my thoughts, and haven't been copied from any other source/publication.


Most mates of mine are sports nuts.

Probably music ones on here, in the main...

I would suggest an urgent vote on Brexit...but oh yeah, we can't go out for 6 months...Guess the fools who voted it for will have to suck it up as their businesses - sans all the foreign workers and hit by this virus - go exponentially to the wall...

But at least we have "taken control back" ...

Barney wrote:
Being a regular poster - on this fine JK site - I occasionally post about complicated (to me) financial government matters.

Like the National Debt, budget deficits - and their consequences.

In the hope that someone will say 'good points/you're right' - 'total rubbish, because' - or tell me something I missed.

Often happens! As, for example, my posts - on this thread - are my thoughts, and haven't been copied from any other source/publication.


Most mates of mine are sports nuts.

Probably music ones on here, in the main...





Barney, I dont know or care enough about money to comment, but I enjoy reading your posts about it.

I certainly know more than I would otherwise.

Barney wrote:
Soon to be added to our National Dedt will be the £2billion cost of Brexit - and the projected payments for HS2, probably around £80 billion.

Vaugue and unverifiable guesstimates fo Coranavirus expenses are anticipated to exceed £100 billion - so our Debt will soon be on the way to £3T.

Bearing in mind we have yet to negotiate new post-EU trade agreements - and are already forking out £1 billion, every week, in interest on the Debt.


The financial consequences of the recently announced measures - for health, benefits, housing, VAT etc. - will also have to be paid for, with money we don't have.

Further increases of £150/200 billion, in our National Debt, are predicted by many seasoned financial experts; it could well be more.

Apart from the coranavirus dangers to our health - the virus also carries financial ones. Some are forecasting the worst peacetime depression since the 30s.

wyot wrote:
I would suggest an urgent vote on Brexit...but oh yeah, we can't go out for 6 months...Guess the fools who voted it for will have to suck it up as their businesses - sans all the foreign workers and hit by this virus - go exponentially to the wall...

But at least we have "taken control back" ...

A farmer who I know very well. Has lost huge amount of cheap foreign labour. However he said students are next best thing especially if there's accommodation on the fields.
If it's not students then it's the DWP who have no choice but to take the job.

Coronavirus costs are spiralling - with (for example) new Nightingale hospitals, increased benefits, huge equipment purchases - and the furloughing of workers.

The latter is estimated to cost £80 billion, when the self-employed are taken into account. Beneficiaries getting 80% of their salaries paid include employees of multinationals.

Wetherspoons workers - and those of McDonald's, Next, Costa etc., will be paid by the taxpayer; thus helping the share prices to stabilise, to the benefit of shareholders.

So - we (taxpayers) are propping up private companies and increasing our National Debt to fund it! Are we bailing out these entities - and is the Exchequer entitled to a shareholding?


A very serious consequence of virus economics is that our current National Debt interest of £1 billion a week will soon increase dramatically - making severe and longstanding austerity inevitable...

public* companies

Now experts confirm the financial consequences of coronavirus.

In 2020, the economy will shrink by 7.8% - the worst since 1921.

Recession is inevitable, and stingent austerity measures.

With Brexit on the back burner - EU countries have more pressing problems.

OBR now predicts a 13% reduction in our GDP.

The worst for 300 years - with the consequences unfathomable.


Although a major recession/depression is inevitable.

National Debt will go off the scale, with coronavirus costs.


Interest on the £2T debt is currently running at over £1 billion a week.

Soon this will rise dramatically - and could well be the straw that...

Barney wrote:
OBR now predicts a 13% reduction in our GDP.

The worst for 300 years - with the consequences unfathomable.


Although a major recession/depression is inevitable.

National Debt will go off the scale, with coronavirus costs.


Interest on the £2T debt is currently running at over £1 billion a week.

Soon this will rise dramatically - and could well be the straw that...




Could there possibly be an advantage to a recession?
I am surprised at how eager so many governments were to cause one.

And your point is Barney?

US civil was greenback printing of money
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Note

At the heart of money supply, debt and national debt - is that the issue is - not dealing with the various problems "adequately" as they arise.

Simply put money can be "created", "debts cancelled" and a "good distribution" to right needs and people can be managed, plus good "controls".

Margaret Thatcher and the economist at the time ignored previous history and talked as I remember of one aspect only of controlling "the money supply".

Firstly taxation system is mainly a closed system restricted to taxation, of course, and with added borrowing. But by using national central banks and international co operation this taxation and borrowing aspect can always be improved to meet various economic needs, like debt cancelation, fair new money supply distribution to the poor - for example and not to the rich already or industry as happened in Germany which engineered the money supply and distrbution deliberately.

Of course in addition to "supply" / "distibution" there is "control" like against indiscrimate supply and counterfeiting.

Bottom line the issue is NOT really national debt as it can be concelled any time. But money management and internationalentities working together to deal with the immediate issues. Like many other things the issues can be managed better. (yes national debt is an issue but should not be the controlling and limiting issue only when it is obvious new money is needed and the debt reduced/cancelled)

2007 onwards saw many chnages to deal with the crash. History is full of good and bad examples of managing national and interntional money supply. Including the cancellation of debt.

Barney you raised the issue as of interest. So I have taken time to share my own observations. And I do not see national debt as the real issue but how it is viewed and how the other options are ignored. The overall goal should be to have a money system that serves the national economy and all citizens and the international economy and world citizens not the other way round.

Soon, interest on our increased National Debt (because of coronavirus) - will become one of our biggest expenses.


www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk


And, by the nature of the Debt - this cost will be never ending, continuing into the distant future. To be paid by many generations.