Not as bad as the Matt'n'Boris show but more convincing but more stupid. I liken Humanity's reaction to Covid19 to the scorpion which stings itself to death rather than get burned in the Ring of Fire. Not thinking about leaping the flames or putting them out. Doh.

This is a question but not an answer. If Covid19 killed off most of the truly vulnerable (the very old or very unwell), surely the deaths in the stupid "second wave" will be fewer? Those who have got older & those who have become ill with other diseases will now catch it and die, just like they do with Flu. At its worst C&P predict 200 deaths a week. But 500 die in an average DAY anyway. More over reaction. This virus is here to stay - even when we get a vaccine (look at Flu). Should we be clamping down on Flu in a similar way? Would it make any sense? Common sense says - PROTECT the vulnerable. TREAT those badly affected. Otherwise, urge people to be sensible (when meeting elderly relatives). Lose weight. Stop smoking.

In Sweden it has been spreading for weeks and is currently at about the same level as the UK (60,000 cases). Just look at the death rate.

France - Dim Whitty says "look at France - hundreds are dying". The reality is very different from the "first" wave. Doesn't he look at figures?

These eminent, highly experienced professors are totally wrong and deluded!

Or have they been influenced by an inept government, or a corrupt media?

Tomorrow is going to be interesting with Boris announcing his new lockdown measures.

Increasingly mainstream media are putting in coverage that reflects viewpoints found on this site (in places)for 6 months, and questioning whether any level of lockdowns achieve anything much other than more death and misery than the virus.

But I fear it is too late for this hapless Administration, and we are in for more pointless misery and counter productive initiatives.

Isolation between families and of the already lonely or suicidal as households won't be able to mix. But we can mix with people from multiple households indoors at work. Pubs to shut early so that boozers crowd the bars in greater numbers earlier, spreading Covid quicker and causing more social problems including domestic violence. The already fragile recovering economy taking a nosedive, as consumer confidence is battered.

Meanwhile there is no way out of this because track and trace (pointless, but they are wedded to it now) is screwed with not enough testing capacity. More medical interventions delayed and schools shut as staff can't get to work because the Gov is caught in its own panic-logic web.

We should be peacefully marching on Westminster in our millions.

I'm so sorry I am going on about this again. But it is so obviously, screamingly bone-headedly stupid and wrong.

Wyot wrote:
Tomorrow is going to be interesting with Boris announcing his new lockdown measures.

Increasingly mainstream media are putting in coverage that reflects viewpoints found on this site (in places)for 6 months, and questioning whether any level of lockdowns achieve anything much other than more death and misery than the virus.

But I fear it is too late for this hapless Administration, and we are in for more pointless misery and counter productive initiatives.

Isolation between families and of the already lonely or suicidal as households won't be able to mix. But we can mix with people from multiple households indoors at work. Pubs to shut early so that boozers crowd the bars in greater numbers earlier, spreading Covid quicker and causing more social problems including domestic violence. The already fragile recovering economy taking a nosedive, as consumer confidence is battered.

Meanwhile there is no way out of this because track and trace (pointless, but they are wedded to it now) is screwed with not enough testing capacity. More medical interventions delayed and schools shut as staff can't get to work because the Gov is caught in its own panic-logic web.

We should be peacefully marching on Westminster in our millions.

I'm so sorry I am going on about this again. But it is so obviously, screamingly bone-headedly stupid and wrong.


I wish the media stopped using the word "scary". If I did see a large group of people I wouldn't grass them up to the fuzz.

Either close pubs early or reduce groups but please no lockdown.

I had another phone conversation with businness partners of mine; they told all their staff they would be made redundant if there was another lockdown.

London Stock Exchange have written of billions of pounds. I wonder if Deliveroo would be worth investing in ?

The government don't have two pound coins to rub together because it's all taxpayers money.

My partner love's clothes shopping in small boutique's they are now diminishing.

I have no problems getting thing's from charity shops but her local Cancer Research shop has been closed since lockdown started - how many charity shops are like that nationwide ?

Green Man wrote:
Wyot wrote:
Tomorrow is going to be interesting with Boris announcing his new lockdown measures.

Increasingly mainstream media are putting in coverage that reflects viewpoints found on this site (in places)for 6 months, and questioning whether any level of lockdowns achieve anything much other than more death and misery than the virus.

But I fear it is too late for this hapless Administration, and we are in for more pointless misery and counter productive initiatives.

Isolation between families and of the already lonely or suicidal as households won't be able to mix. But we can mix with people from multiple households indoors at work. Pubs to shut early so that boozers crowd the bars in greater numbers earlier, spreading Covid quicker and causing more social problems including domestic violence. The already fragile recovering economy taking a nosedive, as consumer confidence is battered.

Meanwhile there is no way out of this because track and trace (pointless, but they are wedded to it now) is screwed with not enough testing capacity. More medical interventions delayed and schools shut as staff can't get to work because the Gov is caught in its own panic-logic web.

We should be peacefully marching on Westminster in our millions.

I'm so sorry I am going on about this again. But it is so obviously, screamingly bone-headedly stupid and wrong.


I wish the media stopped using the word "scary". If I did see a large group of people I wouldn't grass them up to the fuzz.

Either close pubs early or reduce groups but please no lockdown.

I had another phone conversation with businness partners of mine; they told all their staff they would be made redundant if there was another lockdown.

London Stock Exchange have written of billions of pounds. I wonder if Deliveroo would be worth investing in ?

The government don't have two pound coins to rub together because it's all taxpayers money.

My partner love's clothes shopping in small boutique's they are now diminishing.

I have no problems getting thing's from charity shops but her local Cancer Research shop has been closed since lockdown started - how many charity shops are like that nationwide ?

About half have gone in my area. Most of the very small ones run by all volunteers are hanging on though.

I feel like screaming every time I hear the phrase "Because of covid" which seems like a huge excuse to throw your weight around and do as little as possible.

For instance, a lot of charity shops are not accepting donations without an appointment. Yes. Really.

There is simply no need for this. All they have to do is stick the bags somewhere for a week before touching them and carry on as normal.

Needless to say, the shops are empty, and will probably all vanish soon.

What a damp squid today's announcement was. Now is a precarious time and we must act. So few more rules about masks here and there, pubs to shut an hour early, and trim your wedding guest list to 15. Work from home if you can, even though work environments have been made Covid secure to be open?

Am I completely stupid?

How will this minor tinkering in anyway reduce the r number?

Wyot wrote:
What a damp squid today's announcement was. Now is a precarious time and we must act. So few more rules about masks here and there, pubs to shut an hour early, and trim your wedding guest list to 15. Work from home if you can, even though work environments have been made Covid secure to be open?

Am I completely stupid?

How will this minor tinkering in anyway reduce the r number?

NWO.

Wyot wrote:
pubs to shut an hour early


Particularly at weekends, many bars, pubs, clubs and restaurants trade long into the next day.

After the long lockdown, many won't have had sufficient trading normality to allow them to survive.

Large sections of the hospitality industry will fail, if as predicted, the curfews last for six more months.

R Number wrote:
Wyot wrote:
pubs to shut an hour early

Particularly at weekends, many bars, pubs, clubs and restaurants trade long into the next day.

After the long lockdown, many won't have had sufficient trading normality to allow them to survive


Exactly. And it won't achieve anything other than creating thousands more unemployed pissed off youngsters...

Also the local pub is a local community haven/support for a lot of people, and they will be gone quicker than they were going anyway....

R Number wrote:
Wyot wrote:
pubs to shut an hour early


Particularly at weekends, many bars, pubs, clubs and restaurants trade long into the next day.

After the long lockdown, many won't have had sufficient trading normality to allow them to survive.

Large sections of the hospitality industry will fail, if as predicted, the curfews last for six more months.

I'm just waiting to see a drunk, unmasked conga line after closing time.

I am sure Honey, is no stranger to the conga around Liverpool singing the theme to Liver Birds.

Green Man wrote:
R Number wrote:
Wyot wrote:
pubs to shut an hour early


Particularly at weekends, many bars, pubs, clubs and restaurants trade long into the next day.

After the long lockdown, many won't have had sufficient trading normality to allow them to survive.

Large sections of the hospitality industry will fail, if as predicted, the curfews last for six more months.

I'm just waiting to see a drunk, unmasked conga line after closing time.

I am sure Honey, is no stranger to the conga around Liverpool singing the theme to Liver Birds.


Come and say hello next time you spot me!


Terrible for the industry, but I am secretly delighted at the idea of not having to stand at the bar to get served, being able to see the whole music performance, and getting home before ten.

Wont young people and lushes just start earlier and then all pile in to each others houses to carry on boozing?

Wyot wrote:
R Number wrote:
Wyot wrote:
pubs to shut an hour early

Particularly at weekends, many bars, pubs, clubs and restaurants trade long into the next day.

After the long lockdown, many won't have had sufficient trading normality to allow them to survive


Exactly. And it won't achieve anything other than creating thousands more unemployed pissed off youngsters...

Also the local pub is a local community haven/support for a lot of people, and they will be gone quicker than they were going anyway....




Would you prefer then that all (including the many we see ignoring even the most basic covid protocols) should be allowed to mingle and associate with those who do?

It's so logical to simply assume your closest human is ignorant. Of all potentially fatal and transmittable conditions. This virus has developed a superior infection capability.

R Number wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
[quote]R Number wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:


Would you prefer then that all (including the many we see ignoring even the most basic covid protocols) should be allowed to mingle and associate with those who do?


In the absence of persuasive evidence that lockdown measures save lives, or that the deaths and harm from state interference is less than from the effects of lockdown.

Yes, of course.

Essentially it's similar to Flu before they found a vaccine a few years ago. Should we have shut down then, and avoided all the Flu deaths? Answer - No. Of course we should CONTROL the transmission if we can (NOT control the virus - impossible) by advice and strong recommendations. Increase both protection and treatment in care homes & hospitals. Death rates will fall (they are already way below Cancer, Flu, Sepsis etc).

I think society should ban cigarettes but that won't happen. I think personal hygiene and common sense are vital, not laws. I think media should print ALL death figures and NOT exaggerate the danger of Covid19 because without responsibility punters assume media inflation is truth. It's not.

They wont need to inflate the figures very soon. It seems they are planning to send covid patients from hospital to care home.
Again. And look how well that turned out!


"If" we need to get rid of and avoid the spread, the schools and colleges will have to shut.
Messing around with closing times is futile.

I agree JK about taking sensible measures but not locking the world down.

Agree with Honey that this current tinkering is futile if we continue to obsess on the infection rate.

Either shut down properly or consider following Sweden. Either path takes courage; one thing Boris does not possess.

As it looks like we are going to continue down the state interference can stop the virus route, we should lockdown fully now for 2 months - not in Winter.

This to stop the spike in Covid hospitalizations coming at the same time as the peak of other winter respiratory illnesses.

Honey wrote:
Green Man wrote:
R Number wrote:
Wyot wrote:
pubs to shut an hour early


Particularly at weekends, many bars, pubs, clubs and restaurants trade long into the next day.

After the long lockdown, many won't have had sufficient trading normality to allow them to survive.

Large sections of the hospitality industry will fail, if as predicted, the curfews last for six more months.

I'm just waiting to see a drunk, unmasked conga line after closing time.

I am sure Honey, is no stranger to the conga around Liverpool singing the theme to Liver Birds.


Come and say hello next time you spot me!


Terrible for the industry, but I am secretly delighted at the idea of not having to stand at the bar to get served, being able to see the whole music performance, and getting home before ten.

Wont young people and lushes just start earlier and then all pile in to each others houses to carry on boozing?

That's what they doing around Dorset and Devon. Boozing in each others houses that is not conga.

Why aren't the old boilers dancing around their handbags anymore ?