Although there's no shortage of people ready to criticise, insult and demean DT - his achievements are worthy of examination.

Many are totally new initiatives and successes; never attempted or occurred before in almost 250 years of US history.


1. US oil production is now the largest in the world - more than Russia and Saudi Arabia

2. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. This permanently cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%

3. Unemployment. Lowest in 50 years

4. Reshaped the federal judiciary - installing 220 judges, including three Supreme Court judges; all for life

5. Created the fasted growing economy in US history. Growth was over 33% in Q3, of 2020

6. First Step Act. Overhauling federal sentencing laws and reducing mandatory minimum sentences; as well as expanding early-release programs

7. Opened Diplomatic relations with North Korea - which never existed before

8. Established the $15.4 Space Force to control space - the first new service since 1947

9. Immigration significantly reduced

10. Blunt recognition of China as the new geopolitical threat of the 21st century


Not bad - in four years. However he will probably be best remembered for the almost 250,000 (so far) Covid deaths.

$15.4 billion*

middlemas wrote:



Not bad - in four years. However he will probably be best remembered for the almost 250,000 (so far) Covid deaths.

At last we agree on Covid Middlemas!

In a country of 331 million a death rate of 250 00 being 0.07% of the population, it would be a grave injustice indeed if "The Don" were to be remembered for a statistically insignificant loss of life in comparison with other ways people die...

Well said!

Wyot wrote:
a statistically insignificant loss of life


Perhaps - though not how many Americans see it.

Considering that US Covid deaths are now more than those in World War I, Korean War and the Vietnam War - combined.

As well as Pearl Harbour, 9/11, 1906 San Francisco earthquake, 1900 Galveston hurricane etc.


Predicted also - to soon exceed the American deaths of WWII.

Yes and anyone with more than one working brain cells will see straight through the fake figures - they know millions more die from cancer, road accidents, heart failure and even poverty every day. Compared to other reasons for death this is a very trivial virus indeed.

middlemas wrote:
Wyot wrote:
a statistically insignificant loss of life

Predicted also - to soon exceed the American deaths of WWII.

I predict that one day, given enough time, viruses will kill more people than every war mankind has ever engaged in. So what?

I also predict that given sufficient time from today more people aged 80 plus will die in a year than were killed by the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima. So what?

You are not comparing like for like.

Anything can be compared to anything to make it appear like there is some meaningful or logical connection, when there isn't.

Press and politicians are doing it to great effect at the moment. Quite deliberately.

We must think for ourselves. You clearly do this when considering Trump's legacy against the recieved opinion of him (better than I do).

I wonder what so hampers you and others with this subject?

JK2006 wrote:
Compared to other reasons for death this is a very trivial virus indeed.


That, of course, is a matter of opinion. We know this virus is more infectious than most others, but less lethal.

But consider US road traffic accident deaths, for instance. So far this year, Covid has killed 6 times those of last year.

For a new and unknown virus (without, as yet, a cure), that's rather worrying - at least; particularly when the numbers are rising.

Wyot wrote:
You are not comparing like for like

www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1132-9


I'm not comparing anything.

But experts like these are predicting 511,000+ US Covid deaths by the end of February next.

Bunkum?

Middlemas, you are just impossible...

I can't continue...

middlemas wrote:
Although there's no shortage of people ready to criticise, insult and demean DT - his achievements are worthy of examination.

Many are totally new initiatives and successes; never attempted or occurred before in almost 250 years of US history.


1. US oil production is now the largest in the world - more than Russia and Saudi Arabia

2. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. This permanently cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%

3. Unemployment. Lowest in 50 years

4. Reshaped the federal judiciary - installing 220 judges, including three Supreme Court judges; all for life

5. Created the fasted growing economy in US history. Growth was over 33% in Q3, of 2020

6. First Step Act. Overhauling federal sentencing laws and reducing mandatory minimum sentences; as well as expanding early-release programs

7. Opened Diplomatic relations with North Korea - which never existed before

8. Established the $15.4 Space Force to control space - the first new service since 1947

9. Immigration significantly reduced

10. Blunt recognition of China as the new geopolitical threat of the 21st century


Not bad - in four years. However he will probably be best remembered for the almost 250,000 (so far) Covid deaths.

Interesting list middlemas. And I think you are right in that Trump acheived things as do almost all leaders (Hitler was spot on in a number of things. Autobahn. "The day they stop printing money is the day inflation will cease..." someting to that effect amaogst many other things NB before I am hauled off he was at heart evil a fanatic. And I cannot be sure his acheivements are better than Clinton's would of acheived. I felt sorry for the Americans at that previous election, what did they have to choose from.

Trump has performed exactly to his known nature I saw in action over his golf course in Scotland some years ago when he opposed wind farms because they they affected the view. He never cared about the environment but his profit. His name is on all his money making endeavours. surely that says it all.

1. Why not the lowest oil production and most new electic cars would be a better acheivement
2. why not corp tax still at 35% or even 40%. Reasonable higher taxes make no difference in some areas like corporate profits (Share price goes up at the word profit not the tax rate). Too high tax penalising people , family history of hard work like labour's exorbitant taxes decades ag is wrong of course.
3. Unemployment well I do agree Trump was right to encourage jobs back to the US after the crazy stuff of the Reagan Thatcher era. Good thumbs up Would another leader done the same and maybe unemployment would be even lower
4. legal I don't know . We still have no idea what reliable evidence has ever existed in the Epstein/Maxwell thing plus 1000's of other cases. Plea bargins and confessions. So what has he done to move the system towards fairness and justice. As evidence shows the same or even less justice.
5. Who created the fastest growth. Maybe Trump dserves credit I have no idea. Maybe the previous economic crash and long term low interest rate.
6. This bit sounds good news
7. North Korea good one. I can not help thinking both leaders have very strong similarities shooting off at the mouth in all directions. But still well done Trump
8. & 9. sound well done as well
10.Maybe some good but Trump's attitute and treatment of China is appalling and is similar to the old fashion capitalism of gun boat diplomacy and not as would be expected of a modern world leader that has the welfare of the US and china at heart wo all can win.

But still between the choice Trump still may of been the best choice of two......

COVID will be remembered I guess for COVID as unless something dramatically changes it's spread has been more of a mystery than anything. In Europe we initially had countries with the highest per capita spread yet countries smack in the middle like Germany and Austria hardly touched. A mystery.

If you have two sets of people. One set is the group of people who have died with Covid. One set is people who died during a particular armed conflict, assume they are fit for military service.

Now imagine there was no Covid and no armed conflict. Which set will have a higher rate of death anyway? I'd argue the Covid set would because of pre-existing conditions and age. You can't really compare outcomes in terms of death for the two groups.

Mr Flintstone wrote:
You can't really compare outcomes in terms of death for the two groups.

I totally agree Flintstone, but you need to remember that Middlemas was not making any comparisons apparently!

The list of war dead he put next to the word "Covid" to highlight that Covid has killed more were not included to compare the two, but for obscure reasons known only to their author.

This is why I now won't continue any debate on this subject with MM: he is dishonest. He doesn't post in good faith.