A theory. Covid19 is not a killer virus at all; it is a trivial virus which attaches itself to other conditions, then leaves the body having made those conditions far worse.
If that is so, it would mean that those who died WITH Covid actually died of other conditions - pneumonia, flu, diabetes, obesity, weak lungs - and, worst of all, old age.

As a result, easy to find or develop a vaccine to stifle the impact of Covid. Far easier than finding a vaccine for a real, nasty virus like HIV or Ebola or even the common cold.

Could this theory be correct? Easily tested. What did those dying actually die of? Respiratory infection? That's not Covid; that's pneumonia or flu or smoking. Cancer? That's not Covid. Old age? That's not Covid. Weak heart? That's not Covid.
Let us just hope someone can tell us the answer. Quickly. And NOT be nobbled by media, desperate to protect their pandemic "great story".

Let's not talk at cross purposes. I'm suggesting that Covid19 is a virus which has few actual effects or symptoms but aggravates and worsens other illnesses. So people die of pneumonia, for example. And, now, treatment is better for pneumonia.
At the same time heart problems, sepsis, accidents had worse consequences for some. Instead of wheezing, people with weak lungs cannot breathe and sometimes die. Obese people; smokers; suddenly symptoms they normally live with worsen and become life threatening.
By counteracting these effects, vaccines will pull humanity back to pre Covid levels. A far less complex solution than having to deal with truly killer viruses like Ebola. Which could explain why suddenly everyone is making easy vaccines. Just a theory.

Really, it's a bit like s saying a person wasn't killed by a car accident when they die in hospital a week later.

No-one really dies from an auto accident, rather they succumb to inquiries encounted in that accident which could be a whole variety of things.

It's taking semantics to new levels.

# I did have a school friend who never ate pork and I asked if it was for religious reasons.

He said no, but pork had killed his dad.

I asked if it was ham that was maybe off and he said no, "He was walking down a street in London and a pig fell on his head and killed him".

Absolutely true story and I've wondered since..who keeps a pig on a balcony in Fulham?

Hedda wrote:
Really, it's a bit like s saying a person wasn't killed by a car accident when they die in hospital a week later.

No-one really dies from an auto accident, rather they succumb to inquiries encounted in that accident which could be a whole variety of things.

It's taking semantics to new levels.

# I did have a school friend who never ate pork and I asked if it was for religious reasons.

He said no, but pork had killed his dad.

I asked if it was ham that was maybe off and he said no, "He was walking down a street in London and a pig fell on his head and killed him".

Absolutely true story and I've wondered since..who keeps a pig on a balcony in Fulham?

Another shit hole.

Nice story Hedda; made me smile on this miserable grey London day. But your first point is fair. Am I playing language semantics? As an example on your side - does someone who dies with flu die because of that nasty virus or do they die from complications induced by flu?

But my question remains valid, surely? We don't "test" for flu (or car accidents or other provocations). Common sense does not stop any human interaction because of the potential effects of contact.

Now we would - and should - do that if, for example, Ebola became highly infectious. Until a vaccine was found. But people would then be dying from Ebola. Yes; it does cause the body to react in different ways; the point being that many of the symptoms caused are lethal. For almost everyone.

Likewise cancer. Not infectious but easily stopped or slowed by banning tobacco use. Which is why I advocate that. Certain poisonous substances like alcohol; recreational drugs etc - I can understand legally limiting consumption, as so many people do not appear to have the common sense to avoid them. But the effects tend to kill the user, rather than others, so society discourages rather than bans.

But Covid19 is hugely trivial. The vast majority have no symptoms at all or only mild ones (like my annoying long tail joint aches). Without the media hype, it would just, now, be like flu. Especially since we have vaccines. It may or may not be trivial due to taking serious social measures like lockdowns but I suspect in fact it was always inflated by media coverage and, if left alone without the promotion, it would simply have existed without much attention, rather as sepsis does.

Down Under is proof of this. As are other huge swathes of the world (Thailand; Singapore; Korea; Taiwan; China; Canada; North Africa; Greece; Scandinavia etc).

So - being convinced of this - my head tries to get around how, within months, so many vaccines seem to have been "discovered". Rather as treatments emerged ("existing drug cuts danger by 75%"). It is like an allergy. Humans find they are allergic to pollen, for example. Give scientists or medics a few weeks and they develop something that solves that. Yes; a few will die before they find it but that's life (or, rather, death).

Global doom sayers were quoted by media loving a "great story" as predicting 50 million would die from Covid19. In fact it looks like nearer 3 million will have died "with" Covid19 by the time this becomes a non story (March). A small percentage of the normal world death count will have "had": Covid when they died. How many "had" a mild cold or flu or numerous other infections when they died? Nobody knows because we don't test them (why bother? Only to give media their boring "great story").

If every day every news outlet carried the numbers of deaths of people who had a slight cold or an aching big toe when they died, I'd accept this. But it is obvious ONLY the current scare that media carries. And the panic created has killed millions, I believe.

I think you are on to something. It has long been perplexing that only the language of "died with" Covid can be used. This is the first time I can remember this sort of language being used to describe a cause of death. C19 is distinct in this way from say sepsis or cancer. Clearly it does target and exacerbate existing conditions (such as weight, which I have gone on about in another thread and why I think our general state of health as a nation needs far more attention as a cause of this situation).

Yes it C19 a very nasty contributing factor in many deaths. But the reason I think you are right and it is an important distinction, is that not many more people are actually dying than in a normal year. If the UK or worldwide deaths were 600k or 3 million more than a normal year then fine - it is just a semantic distinction.

But these deaths are being portrayed and treated (with all the horrors caused by lockdown) as additional "C19 deaths" when they are not. This not a killer plague. Lockdown, though, should be seen as such; using just a touch of poetic licence.

You could write a thesis on this JK. Then we could call you Doctor King.

I'm more confused about the pandemic than I was in March 2020.

And I'm sick of wearing masks, or maybe sick of forgetting them in the car and always having to walk back to find one as I get rejected from a supermarket.

## I've got an odd feeling mask wearing is going to be around for a few years now.

hedda wrote:
You could write a thesis on this JK. Then we could call you Doctor King.

I'm more confused about the pandemic than I was in March 2020.

And I'm sick of wearing masks, or maybe sick of forgetting them in the car and always having to walk back to find one as I get rejected from a supermarket.

## I've got an odd feeling mask wearing is going to be around for a few years now.

Duh...it’s part of the “new normal”.

hedda wrote:


I'm more confused about the pandemic than I was in March 2020.


Just give in to those usually sound instincts Hedda. You know you want to...Join us my son...

This is interesting I think for this thread:

www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020...tter_impression=true

The latest research from Italy shows that 99% of those who have died of C19 had other illnesses/conditions. Most had 3 or more. Only 0.8% had no known health condition.

The big question for me is how many would have died during the past year from their illness? Where would this leave the death figures for this deadly plague?

Captain Tom is a good example. He has been struggling aged 100 with pneumonia and been in and out of hospital. Now he has tested positive for C19! So if he dies in the next 60 days "with" Covid he will get lumped on to the Covid death toll. Ridiculous.

Other point of note is that Italy has only been testing for those with symptoms and now it has started more widely its death toll has reduced a lot nearer the global average of 2%.

Watch the killer efficacy level of this virus be re calculated downwards all over the world now as testing expands.

Watch too as more confused people slowly realise that most of the deaths they have been counting would have died anyway within roughly these time periods.

Wyot wrote:
This is interesting I think for this thread:

www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020...tter_impression=true

The latest research from Italy shows that 99% of those who have died of C19 had other illnesses/conditions. Most had 3 or more. Only 0.8% had no known health condition.

The big question for me is how many would have died during the past year from their illness? Where would this leave the death figures for this deadly plague?

Captain Tom is a good example. He has been struggling aged 100 with pneumonia and been in and out of hospital. Now he has tested positive for C19! So if he dies in the next 60 days "with" Covid he will get lumped on to the Covid death toll. Ridiculous.

Other point of note is that Italy has only been testing for those with symptoms and now it has started more widely its death toll has reduced a lot nearer the global average of 2%.

Watch the killer efficacy level of this virus be re calculated downwards all over the world now as testing expands.

Watch too as more confused people slowly realise that most of the deaths they have been counting would have died anyway within roughly these time periods.

You die with Covid not from Covid - also if Captain Tom dies it would be from old age ??

www.thesun.co.uk/news/13874978/coronavir...ive-valneva-vaccine/

This bizarre attempt to conflate dying of something else when you have Covid is most odd.

It's like a whole new dreamed up angle (see my brilliant Robbins thread).

Honestly its like claiming that you only died of old age when, take my mother for example- she had a mild stroke and then 4 days later had a devastating stroke that killed her within an hour.

Same same my Dad..I still have his death certificate that lists 2 things that apparently killed him but we could just say it was old age. Mind you he was 78 and my mother was 86.

So what is "old age"?. Centuries ago most people were lucky if they got to 50. 30 was probably regarded as middle age.

Cancer kills people but does it? People with cancer can die of all different things..heart attacks etc.

Wyot wrote:
This is interesting I think for this thread:

www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020...tter_impression=true

The latest research from Italy shows that 99% of those who have died of C19 had other illnesses/conditions. Most had 3 or more. Only 0.8% had no known health condition.

The big question for me is how many would have died during the past year from their illness? Where would this leave the death figures for this deadly plague?

Captain Tom is a good example. He has been struggling aged 100 with pneumonia and been in and out of hospital. Now he has tested positive for C19! So if he dies in the next 60 days "with" Covid he will get lumped on to the Covid death toll. Ridiculous.

Other point of note is that Italy has only been testing for those with symptoms and now it has started more widely its death toll has reduced a lot nearer the global average of 2%.

Watch the killer efficacy level of this virus be re calculated downwards all over the world now as testing expands.

Watch too as more confused people slowly realise that most of the deaths they have been counting would have died anyway within roughly these time periods.

It seems to be covid that has floored Captain Tom, because the pneumonia treatment has been going on for a while (normal in the elderly) and he was at home until yesterday.

Dont forget, all deaths are "with" not "from" now. Even when it is "from" with no other known conditions.

Never mind him being old and it not mattering, and being with not from. The question is... How did an immobile elderly gentleman being sheltered at home GET coronavirus?

Green Man wrote:
Wyot wrote:
This is interesting I think for this thread:

www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020...tter_impression=true

The latest research from Italy shows that 99% of those who have died of C19 had other illnesses/conditions. Most had 3 or more. Only 0.8% had no known health condition.

The big question for me is how many would have died during the past year from their illness? Where would this leave the death figures for this deadly plague?

Captain Tom is a good example. He has been struggling aged 100 with pneumonia and been in and out of hospital. Now he has tested positive for C19! So if he dies in the next 60 days "with" Covid he will get lumped on to the Covid death toll. Ridiculous.

Other point of note is that Italy has only been testing for those with symptoms and now it has started more widely its death toll has reduced a lot nearer the global average of 2%.

Watch the killer efficacy level of this virus be re calculated downwards all over the world now as testing expands.

Watch too as more confused people slowly realise that most of the deaths they have been counting would have died anyway within roughly these time periods.

You die with Covid not from Covid - also if Captain Tom dies it would be from old age ??

www.thesun.co.uk/news/13874978/coronavir...ive-valneva-vaccine/

If a hundred year old dies peacefully from their heart giving out, it is completely different to an agonising and frightening death that takes weeks, and often because some moron cant be bothered to clean their hands and wear the bloody mask properly.

Think of me later when you learn about the virus "sweep" operations on 2 Surrey communities at the centre of the "terrifying" South African variant outbreak:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/13911288/coronavir...surrey-testing-live/

Yes, your much beloved Wyot is a citizen of one of these 2 communities, and is expecting the military to post testing kit through my letter box any day now.

Having been out and about in this community today, the only thing anyone seemed terrified of is that we might have to experience the new anal swab developed in China.

We are all agreed that if the military do force any tools on us we much prefer it down the throat. However, if your Wyot is forced to receive an anal swab, be assured I will post the evidence of my civic duty being undertaken on KoH.

Wyot wrote:
Think of me later when you learn about the virus "sweep" operations on 2 Surrey communities at the centre of the "terrifying" South African variant outbreak:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/13911288/coronavir...surrey-testing-live/

Yes, your much beloved Wyot is a citizen of one of these 2 communities, and is expecting the military to post testing kit through my letter box any day now.

Having been out and about in this community today, the only thing anyone seemed terrified of is that we might have to experience the new anal swab developed in China.

We are all agreed that if the military do force any tools on us we much prefer it down the throat. However, if your Wyot is forced to receive an anal swab, be assured I will post the evidence of my civic duty being undertaken on KoH.


I am quite looking forward to watching the drive through anal swabbing .

Honey wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:


I am quite looking forward to watching the drive through anal swabbing .

Yes I hear that Mcdonalds and Burger King are offering to give over some outlets for this purpose.

I wouldn't order a Whopper though Honey...

hedda wrote:
This bizarre attempt to conflate dying of something else when you have Covid is most odd.



The point of doing so is the terrible cost of lockdowns Hedda.

I could equally say well why make a thing of dying of Covid when they also died "with" pneumonia? And there is no point. That is the point - more people are not dying than usual; so on what basis can the horrors of lockdown be justified?

Honey wrote:
Wyot wrote:
Think of me later when you learn about the virus "sweep" operations on 2 Surrey communities at the centre of the "terrifying" South African variant outbreak:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/13911288/coronavir...surrey-testing-live/

Yes, your much beloved Wyot is a citizen of one of these 2 communities, and is expecting the military to post testing kit through my letter box any day now.

Having been out and about in this community today, the only thing anyone seemed terrified of is that we might have to experience the new anal swab developed in China.

We are all agreed that if the military do force any tools on us we much prefer it down the throat. However, if your Wyot is forced to receive an anal swab, be assured I will post the evidence of my civic duty being undertaken on KoH.


I am quite looking forward to watching the drive through anal swabbing .

That be part of "New Normal".