All those citing the disastrous situation in India, who believe it is because of the Killer Virus Covid, should back Boris, Keir and those advocating further lockdowns and suppression. The only way to beat this would be to clamp down on ALL personal contact until it is erased like Smallpox or TB.

If, on the other hand, you agree that this is an example of the power of media hype and how a great story, exaggerated, can cause people to behave in a stupid way, then you must agree that India is an example of PANIC induced by media. People with flu should go to bed, take paracetamol and liquids and get over it. Likewise the majority of Covid victims. Only the elderly, vulnerable, overweight, diabetics and those with underlying health problems should seek assistance.

I bet 80% of those demanding oxygen do not need it. Ditto ventilators.

Yes thousands are dying. It happens. Media just doesn't mention the thousands who die every day, for a variety of reasons, some prompted by Covid or flu or traffic accidents or over eating.

Last time I was in India I would have thought Road Accidents were the main cause of death.
Last time I was in America, obesity abounded.

Vaccinate the vulnerable. NOT everyone (pointless).

Media full of soundbites... "people are dying here" (implying normally nobody dies in hospital)... "the Government behaved stupidly" (Doctors, Nurses and Patients know far more than politicians, thanks to the media)... truly sickening, brain dead media coverage. Inflate, exaggerate, what they need is a BETTER STORY!!!

JK2006 wrote:
All those citing the disastrous situation in India, who believe it is because of the Killer Virus Covid, should back Boris, Keir and those advocating further lockdowns and suppression. The only way to beat this would be to clamp down on ALL personal contact until it is erased like Smallpox or TB.

If, on the other hand, you agree that this is an example of the power of media hype and how a great story, exaggerated, can cause people to behave in a stupid way, then you must agree that India is an example of PANIC induced by media. People with flu should go to bed, take paracetamol and liquids and get over it. Likewise the majority of Covid victims. Only the elderly, vulnerable, overweight, diabetics and those with underlying health problems should seek assistance.

I bet 80% of those demanding oxygen do not need it. Ditto ventilators.

Yes thousands are dying. It happens. Media just doesn't mention the thousands who die every day, for a variety of reasons, some prompted by Covid or flu or traffic accidents or over eating.

Last time I was in India I would have thought Road Accidents were the main cause of death.
Last time I was in America, obesity abounded.

Vaccinate the vulnerable. NOT everyone (pointless).

The problem with vaccinating only the vulnerable is that if there are high rates of the virus in society, then it is likely to mutate into something that the vaccine is not effecctive against and then everyone will have to be vaccinated again with a renewed vaccine. A colleague of mine who works in india died last week of covid aged 42, another colleague in his 30s is in a critical condition and his father is too. This could be a very unlucky coincidence, but it seems that the indian strain is affeccting younger people much more and is very worrying. This is much more than flue, I'm afraid.

JK2006 wrote:
All those citing the disastrous situation in India, who believe it is because of the Killer Virus Covid, should back Boris, Keir and those advocating further lockdowns and suppression. The only way to beat this would be to clamp down on ALL personal contact until it is erased like Smallpox or TB.

If, on the other hand, you agree that this is an example of the power of media hype and how a great story, exaggerated, can cause people to behave in a stupid way, then you must agree that India is an example of PANIC induced by media. People with flu should go to bed, take paracetamol and liquids and get over it. Likewise the majority of Covid victims. Only the elderly, vulnerable, overweight, diabetics and those with underlying health problems should seek assistance.

I bet 80% of those demanding oxygen do not need it. Ditto ventilators.

Yes thousands are dying. It happens. Media just doesn't mention the thousands who die every day, for a variety of reasons, some prompted by Covid or flu or traffic accidents or over eating.

Last time I was in India I would have thought Road Accidents were the main cause of death.
Last time I was in America, obesity abounded.

Vaccinate the vulnerable. NOT everyone (pointless).

I dont think it is possible to protect vulnerable people without protecting everybody because you need a high percentage immune for it to work.
Presumably, they are doing this the natural way?


They measure your oxygen levels before it is supplemented. You cant just walk in and order it like a Pepsi.

People do die. People get more vulnerable to death as they get older due to a law of physics called entropy; which basically means that we are all fucked in the end. Vaccinate everyone because of mutations and to protect every one who is vulnerable!?

Firstly when viruses mutate they generally get less deadly because dead hosts are useless. Secondly, where dies this thinking tske us? Thousands die of flu a year so we need to lockdown every autumn & winter & vaccinate everyone from 0 to 100? Tens of thousands due of air pollution so we ban cars and close airports? 450 a day from cancer so we ban bacon?

Some people will die of Covid every year now; as certainly as something will do for all of us.

Vulnerable people die because they are vulnerable. We are all in the end so vulnerable we will die of something. Ban the word vulnerable!

One thing I've discovered over the years is that everybody is vulnerable to irritation. So it's a very useful tool to wake people up. Never more so, for me, than when I slagged off Live Aid and Band Aid.

So what is happening in India? Is it - like almost everywhere else - a new virus kicking in with very few deaths per cases? Or is it like the Death Five were in Phase One (25% deaths to cases)? Are the 2500 a day dying part of the 25,000 a day that normally die in India or an excess? Why don't media tell us these vital details instead of just concentrating on the negatives (and spreading panic)? Could it be that the truth (this is just like a bad flu season - wrong vaccine - would be) is NOT A GOOD STORY?

This is what is so frustrating about this coverage and has been since day one. Just a moments consideration and it is clear that the media coverage is hopelessly warped towards "killer plague drama". So anyone with an enquiring mind has to do the work the journalists should be doing and try and get to the truth via raw data, interpreted as best we can. Then when you try and do this people call you arrogant, or dismiss you as a "conspiracy throrist". What has surprised me (a bit) is just how many people are content to parrot the party line whatever incongruities are put in front of them - our own KoH "Barney" has helpfully and relentlessly demonstrated this phenomenon for over a year now - and I suspect actually enjoy the loss of freedom and simplicity of narrative that replaces thought with the soothing balm of infantilising propaganda.

Wyot wrote:
This is what is so frustrating about this coverage and has been since day one. Just a moments consideration and it is clear that the media coverage is hopelessly warped towards "killer plague drama". So anyone with an enquiring mind has to do the work the journalists should be doing and try and get to the truth via raw data, interpreted as best we can. Then when you try and do this people call you arrogant, or dismiss you as a "conspiracy throrist". What has surprised me (a bit) is just how many people are content to parrot the party line whatever incongruities are put in front of them - our own KoH "Barney" has helpfully and relentlessly demonstrated this phenomenon for over a year now - and I suspect actually enjoy the loss of freedom and simplicity of narrative that replaces thought with the soothing balm of infantilising propaganda.

It is a little unfair, Wyot. Barney cant be that easy to brainwash, otherwise you would have managed it by now.

Besides, everybody's experience and perception of the danger is different.
If you live with extremely vulnerable people, or you are vulnerable yourself, it is a whole different situation to worrying you might catch "flu" and be unwell for a bit.

Barney might happen to agree with the government this time, but I am sure he has a good reason to, because over the last seven or so years he has consistently told us his views, and they often don't fit the general public feeling and sometimes clash with ideas here, so I assume he has decided for himself.

Honey wrote:
Wyot wrote:


It is a little unfair, Wyot. Barney can be that easy to brainwash, otherwise you would have managed it by now.



How disapointing Honey; I was hoping I was being more than a little unfair on Barney.

JK2006 wrote:
One thing I've discovered over the years is that everybody is vulnerable to irritation. So it's a very useful tool to wake people up. Never more so, for me, than when I slagged off Live Aid and Band Aid.

I agree that making a controversial statement will get attention/publicity but IMHO there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed. One of those lines is the denial of human suffering when help is needed and the controversial statement might lessen the amount of help given. In the case of Covid-19 believing that 80% of those having oxygen or ventilators don’t need them or believing that with most UK patients who are hospitalised their symptoms are psychosomatic and they could be sent home. With Live Aid the suffering was in no doubt and though I agree that mistakes were made in dealing with Covid-19 and the Live Aid organisation wasn’t perfect I don’t believe courting publicity through controversy in either of those situations is appropriate.

BTW, Above I stress human suffering not deaths. When dealing with the false accusation situation it isn’t about the death penalty being administered or life sentences being given and so it is with Covid-19. Death might be the ultimate consequence but it is not the most important metric when opining on how trivial or otherwise the impact the virus is having on a population.

The line that should not be crossed BB is avoiding commenting because media brainwashing is too powerful. Pointing out blatant lies made in order to get circulation or viewing figures or clicks is vital, in my opinion. Twisting controversial opinions to make idiots and gullibles think someone is saying something they are not saying is wicked, if intentional. Normally it is just stupidity. Gullibles find it easy to think someone is belittling suffering, for example, when commentators are clearly not doing so. I think the fake inflation of things like misery in India belittles those suffering from cancer, heart attacks etc by implying their suffering is not worth publicising.

And then provokes far more evil and suffering. The False Allegations Industry has created far more misery that Covid or Flu or Colds. When you start believing inflated lies, justice is abandoned. Decency destroyed. Fairness killed. With innocent but stupid people like yourself, falling for tabloid slogans and headlines.

Wyot wrote:
Honey wrote:
Wyot wrote:


It is a little unfair, Wyot. Barney can be that easy to brainwash, otherwise you would have managed it by now.



How disapointing Honey; I was hoping I was being more than a little unfair on Barney.

Consider yourself soundly spanked, Wyot!

What I think is gullible is coming to a position and refusing to change or modify that belief regardless of what extra information becomes available. 

BB wrote:
What I think is gullible is coming to a position and refusing to change or modify that belief regardless of what extra information becomes available. 

Isn't this precisely what the lockdown enthusiasts have done?

Wyot wrote:
BB wrote:
What I think is gullible is coming to a position and refusing to change or modify that belief regardless of what extra information becomes available. 

Isn't this precisely what the lockdown enthusiasts have done?

No

BB wrote:
Wyot wrote:
BB wrote:
What I think is gullible is coming to a position and refusing to change or modify that belief regardless of what extra information becomes available. 

Isn't this precisely what the lockdown enthusiasts have done?

No

With explication not being their strong point either...

There was flexibility in the use of lockdown restrictions. They were started, modified and terminated as more information became known.

Exactly as they should have been as we've always said on here. Some kind of lockdown early on, until vaccines discovered (which, since it's a trivial virus for most, like variants of flu, would, we predicted, happen fairly fast). But not too late; not instead of protecting the vulnerable.

BB wrote:
There was flexibility in the use of lockdown restrictions. They were started, modified and terminated as more information became known.

The seasonal vagaries of infection levels led to modifications from Government of restrictions, of course. It is also possible that restrictions may also have played some part.

However, information questioning whether restrictions affect death rates was never considered. Information demonstrating that infection levels and death levels were reducing each time before new lockdowns were introduced was ignored. Information from international comparative studies demonstrating that lockdowns make no difference to death levels was ignored. Major studies showing masks achieve nothing was ignored.

It may be that restrictions achieved something but the case was never made, nor a grown up consideration of whether, if they do save lives, general restrictions may cost more lives in the long run and so should not be used; but rather the vulnerable only should be protected as best as possible - which all on this site have always argued for.

With most of the damage done in hospitals and care homes the lockdown enthusiasts just carried on ignoring this and pursuing pointless, destructive restrictions against everyone; as if everyone was equally at risk.

If the lockdown enthusiasts adjust to new information; why will we still be suffering restrictions tomorrow and into late June when 6 people in the UK died "with" Covid in the past 24 hours, the vulnerable are vaccinated & hospital capacity is fine?

Anyone who remains a lockdown supporter given this information meets my definition of gullible.