Those of us who, like Jeremy Corbyn, support the Palestinian struggle, must read this written by an American Jew.

benjaminmoser.substack.com/p/a-trip-to-h...p;utm_source=twitter

A really excellent piece. The state of Israel was founded 73 years ago this month - and the fighting commenced soon afterwards.

The importance of the region - to some many faiths and nations - is a crucial factor. As is close cohabitation; Israel is only the size of Wales.


www.history.com/.amp/topics/middle-east/palestine

Good read and adjusts any wishy-washy thinking like "the violence from both sides is equally terrible and must stop". When Israel stops treating Palestinians like Jews were treated by the Nazis in Eastern Europe, then and only then are people justified in equivocation.

But it's not Jews Wyot - it's militant Israelis. And Hammas are wrong to meet violence with violence. We really need a strong, forceful intervention. Mind you, this British habit of partition has never worked.

JK2006 wrote:
We really need a strong, forceful intervention

By whom though? The US supports Israel morally and financially.

And Palastine has asked the UN to intervene - to no avail.


www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/palestine-c...ion-on-gaza/2236900#

Yes I was saying the Israelis (militant) are treating Palestinians like the Jews were treated historically. I agree Hamas should ideally not meet force with force but as long as Israel keeps treating Palestinians like animals violence from sonewhere is inevitable. Hard to see any solution to it all...The article is so interesting because we get so innured to it all...

That's an interesting and thought-provoking article. I wonder if the collective memory of the Holocaust is what stands in the way of progress. Israel may be committing human rights abuses against the Palestinians but as far as I know they're not systematically exterminating them. No photos of naked Palestinians lined up at the edge of pits prior to execution, no hills of spectacles belonging to the exterminated, no fields of endless barracks, as at Auschwitz. The Holocaust must be seared the brain of anyone who lost relatives or even just knows that millions of fellow Jews lost their lives in it and may be part of the reason why any criticism of Israeli policy is often seen as an attack on the existence of the state of Israel, and hence on the Jewish people and conflated with anti-Semitism. As long as Israel remembers the Holocaust - as it and everyone else should - I suspect there will be Israelis who think that, no matter how much racism/apartheid is perpetrated against the Palestinians, the Holocaust trumps anything Israel is doing and the Palestinians are not getting such a raw deal.

Correct Jo; the problem being that humanity increasingly seems to excuse one form of bad behaviour by saying "it's not as bad" as another. Some may feel there should be no excuse for killing or hurting people. Personally I think it's all vile and should be fought against.

Jo wrote:


I suspect there will be Israelis who think that, no matter how much racism/apartheid is perpetrated against the Palestinians, the Holocaust trumps anything Israel is doing and the Palestinians are not getting such a raw deal.

I think this is correct and can mask all manner of subjugation against the Palestinians. When you objectify and vilify people you can allow yourself to do terrible things to them; the holocaust didn't start with gas chambers it started with how words were used, smashed shop windows, then ghettos...and on it goes.

If the Palestinians had the power some of them would inevitably be doing the same to the Israelis.

If it goes too far in 2021 we won't see trains loaded with humans; we will see nuclear missiles.

Wyot wrote:
we will see nuclear missiles


Nuclear attacks in little Israel!!

There was only a couple of those ever in history.

In a much larger theatre (WWII/Japan) - almost 80 years ago.


Why would you think there's a nuclear likelihood in this very local conflict?

Gael Vella wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:


Why would you think there's a nuclear likelihood in this very local conflict?




I never said there was a "likelihood" -don't misquote me. 80 years is irrelevant. Major conflicts start locally and expand. Clearly if - IF - this conflict gets out of control there is the risk of a wider middle eastern war which could involve the USA & Russia. Israel is a nuclear-armed country. Worst case scenario; but if you think this stuff can't happen again you are a fool.

Wyot wrote:
if you think this stuff can't happen again you are a fool


And the virus could mutate in a more virulent super-covid, and kill even more of us...

Make no mistake Barney there will be a super virus soon, as deadly as Ebola but as infectious as Flu, which will indeed kill tens of millions.

Gael Vella wrote:
Wyot wrote:
if you think this stuff can't happen again you are a fool


And the virus could mutate in a more virulent super-covid, and kill even more of us...





You are a curious mixture Mr Barney of making far too much of one threat (Covid) and too little of what might cause real disaster and significant excess loss of life...

Perhaps as a result of biological warfare?

As, presumably, it's cheaper and easier to concoct an infectious virus - as it is to source a nuclear weapon.

Rogue states may now have the option of using these 'oven ready' weapons which could be released in transport hubs, for instance.

The there's the 'natural' ones...


www.bbc.com/future/article/20210111-what...the-next-pandemic-be

Wyot wrote:
making far too much of one threat (Covid) and too little of what might cause real disaster and significant excess loss of life


Because nuclear weapons killed about 100,000 people - compared to Covid which caused 3,750,000 deaths, so far?

Gael Vella wrote:
Wyot wrote:
making far too much of one threat (Covid) and too little of what might cause real disaster and significant excess loss of life


Because nuclear weapons killed about 100,000 people - compared to Covid which caused 3,750,000 deaths, so far?

What has been the worldwide excess deaths since March 20 Barney? 3.75 million eh?

And the key word in my quote above is "might".

Details sonny; details...

JK2006 wrote:
But it's not Jews Wyot - it's militant Israelis. And Hammas are wrong to meet violence with violence. We really need a strong, forceful intervention. Mind you, this British habit of partition has never worked.

Spot on !

Wyot wrote:
Gael Vella wrote:
Wyot wrote:
making far too much of one threat (Covid) and too little of what might cause real disaster and significant excess loss of life


Because nuclear weapons killed about 100,000 people - compared to Covid which caused 3,750,000 deaths, so far?

What has been the worldwide excess deaths since March 20 Barney? 3.75 million eh?

And the key word in my quote above is "might".

Details sonny; details...