Although many priests are gay, the Roman Catholic Church has no acceptance and little tolerance of gay people.

New legislation in Italy now gives gays more status and rights; but the Vatican City disagrees. Gays are ostracised in this ancient city.

Vatican City (although technically separate) is a part of Rome and therefore Italy - will have serious difficulties in this conflict.

Can my gay son be married in Vatican City? Or should we go to the church (100 yards away) where they'll even legally marry atheists.

Wolfgang wrote:
Although many priests are gay, the Roman Catholic Church has no acceptance and little tolerance of gay people.

New legislation in Italy now gives gays more status and rights; but the Vatican City disagrees. Gays are ostracised in this ancient city.

Vatican City (although technically separate) is a part of Rome and therefore Italy - will have serious difficulties in this conflict.

Can my gay son be married in Vatican City? Or should we go to the church (100 yards away) where they'll even legally marry atheists.

You do know that the Catholic church is quite large, and that many, if not most, of the members couldn't give a stuff if you are gay or not?

If your imaginary gay son is old enough to be married he can decide the venue for himself.

Honey wrote:
If your imaginary gay son is old enough to be married he can decide the venue for himself


As long as the venue isn't a Catholic church...

Wolfgang wrote:



Can my gay son be married in Vatican City? Or should we go to the church (100 yards away) where they'll even legally marry atheists.

I don't think your son should demean himself by even considering the Catholic church. If he is looking to get married that is presumably an act of love that would be sullied by association.

OK - but please say why you hold such strong views about the RCC; aren't they very similar to the Anglicans, for instance?

Wolfgang wrote:
OK - but please say why you hold such strong views about the RCC; aren't they very similar to the Anglicans, for instance?

The RC Church as an institution seems to me very far removed from the teachings of Jesus and the notion of compassion & love. In particular on LGBT rights, it's views about your son's desire to love someone of the same sex, women's rights, making aid to Africa contingent on not using condoms and so thousands dying needlessly...I could go on.

The Anglican Church is institutionally more progressive and less malign in outcome, it seems to me.

That said, of course the RC Church will also have done good and I am sure contains many fine people with the best intentions.

But I think any gay man considering getting married in an institution that condiders his sexual expression of love a "disorder" is demeaning who they are.

They should reject the institution; not scramble to be accommodated by it.

Wolfgang wrote:
OK - but please say why you hold such strong views about the RCC; aren't they very similar to the Anglicans, for instance?

In practice, most churches welcome gay people even though they are not allowed to perform certain ceremonies.

Being Irish, all I can say is that religion causes nothing but problems.

Wyot wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:



Can my gay son be married in Vatican City? Or should we go to the church (100 yards away) where they'll even legally marry atheists.

I don't think your son should demean himself by even considering the Catholic church. If he is looking to get married that is presumably an act of love that would be sullied by association.

Convert him to atheism.

Honey wrote:
In practice, most churches welcome gay people even though they are not allowed to perform certain ceremonies.


Not the RCC - as I understand it

www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/lgbtq-ca...-sex-unions-n1261211

"Gays are ostracised in this ancient city."

yet the Swiss Guard are very popular

Most religions / churches are riddled with factions that range from very left wing and accepting to right wing fanaticism (and visa versa).

Example: the ghastly Evangelicals in the USA who not only advocate for deadly wars like the invasion of Iraq and the killing of innocent people, are anti-LGBT and claim you are poor because God doesn't love you and please send us your rent money as the Lear Jet needs updating.

While invariably their "pastors" are busted giving blowjobs to truck drivers in Airport toilets or keeping a dozen mistresses.

Wolfgang wrote:
Honey wrote:
In practice, most churches welcome gay people even though they are not allowed to perform certain ceremonies.


Not the RCC - as I understand it

www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/lgbtq-ca...-sex-unions-n1261211

You know, Barney, If "your son" feels rejected by the church, I suggest he continues to go along and take part in the bits that he can. After all, the church authority is secondary to the reason we go to church, and he could still benefit from it, I expect.
I would take the view that it is an act of forgiveness towards the church leaders to continue attending.

Even to try to make a bad case in favour of gays having anything to do with the Catholic Church - is bizarre.

Their teaching about homosexual acts is that these are unnatural deviations and sinful! Flog some other dead horses.

Barney has a son.

Wolfgang wrote:
Even to try to make a bad case in favour of gays having anything to do with the Catholic Church - is bizarre.

Their teaching about homosexual acts is that these are unnatural deviations and sinful! Flog some other dead horses.


So don't go to church, and stop whinging about it, you moron!


Or perhaps you meant to say "thank you for trying to help, but it is really not for me" ?

Honey wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
Even to try to make a bad case in favour of gays having anything to do with the Catholic Church - is bizarre.

Their teaching about homosexual acts is that these are unnatural deviations and sinful! Flog some other dead horses.


So don't go to church, and stop whinging about it, you moron!



Or perhaps you meant to say "thank you for trying to help, but it is really not for me" ?

Or Barney wants attention!

Trying to help! Advocating that gays should associate with the RCC - which has a planned, ongoing and determined witch-hunt against them?

Abomination, unnatural, vile, sinful (and worse) is how the RCC describes gay sex. They forbid it, for all - yet turn a blind eye to gay priests.

Wyot may enlighten you on the subject (he has posted intelligently, in this thread). Asking gays to forgive the RCC is a topsy-turvy and most perverse view.

Wolfgang wrote:
Trying to help! Advocating that gays should associate with the RCC - which has a planned, ongoing and determined witch-hunt against them?

Abomination, unnatural, vile, sinful (and worse) is how the RCC describes gay sex. They forbid it, for all - yet turn a blind eye to gay priests.

Wyot may enlighten you on the subject (he has posted intelligently, in this thread). Asking gays to forgive the RCC is a topsy-turvy and most perverse view.


I thought Christianity was ALL about forgiveness? No?


I did not suggest that "Gays" in general should forgive anybody or anything. "Gays" in general can do and think what they like.
And so can the church.

I offered a suggestion to "one particular gay" who has harped on and on about how evil the Catholic church is for years and years while deliberately ignoring all the good they do too, and appearing to positively revel in being discriminated against.

The unfortunate truth, Barney, is that most ordinary people in ordinary churches everywhere are simply not interested in who you have sex with.

Wolfgang wrote:
Trying to help! Advocating that gays should associate with the RCC - which has a planned, ongoing and determined witch-hunt against them?

Abomination, unnatural, vile, sinful (and worse) is how the RCC describes gay sex. They forbid it, for all - yet turn a blind eye to gay priests.

Wyot may enlighten you on the subject (he has posted intelligently, in this thread). Asking gays to forgive the RCC is a topsy-turvy and most perverse view.

Barney I get that this is an emotional subject for you (and I do as you say agree with your views about the RCC and its attitude towards gays) but I think you have misread what Honey was trying to do, which was to suggest an approach which could work for a gay man who may wish to still attend RC ceremonies but try and put the institutions views on this subject to one side.

I too don't see how this can really be done but Honey doesn't know your son and her post (to me) reads as generous in spirit and intended to help; as many of her posts do.

Church leader... "I don't want any gays in my church!"

Gay... "Right then! I wont go in your rotten church"

Church leader... "Hooray"




When people behave badly, you cant change their behaviour by giving into their unreasonable demands. It just reinforces it.