I seem to remember Trump being mocked when he took this drug. Now just a passing mention. Sometimes I feel like the animals in Animal Farm. Where the slogans get changed and nobody can remember the original. Incredible that George Orwell spotted the power of media before I was even born.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58602999

Media also now running stories to correct the thinking they have brought about:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55045639

Why so many Covid cases when so many vaccinated? They ask. Answer they give: vaccines lessen likelihood of serious illness not transmission.

Cut back to early 2020: did anyone think someone taking a flu vaccine cut transmission, rather than just protecting themselves?

Wyot wrote:
Media also now running stories to correct the thinking they have brought about:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55045639

Why so many Covid cases when so many vaccinated? They ask. Answer they give: vaccines lessen likelihood of serious illness not transmission.

Cut back to early 2020: did anyone think someone taking a flu vaccine cut transmission, rather than just protecting themselves?

Ah, but you see, Wyot, that was the old virus, not the new variant that they have invited in and done bugger all to stop.

Honey wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:


Ah, but you see, Wyot, that was the old virus, not the new variant that they have invited in and done bugger all to stop.

Not sure I understand the point Honey; but I am not convinced - or have yet to see any persuasive international comparison data - that there was anything they could do to stop it; or variants. Apart from highly situational bugger ups like care homes.

If restrictions were necessary or particularly effective Sweden would not be (I think...)right down about 36th in the death league; even allowing for national demographic differences.

Wyot wrote:
[quote]Honey wrote:
Wyot wrote:


Ah, but you see, Wyot, that was the old virus, not the new variant that they have invited in and done bugger all to stop.

Not sure I understand the point Honey; but I am not convinced - or have yet to see any persuasive international comparison data - that there was anything they could do to stop it; or variants. Apart from highly situational bugger ups like care homes.

If restrictions were necessary or particularly effective Sweden would not be (I think...)right down about 36th in the death league; even allowing for national demographic differences.

I was not referring to how effective lockdowns etcetera might be, or not, because it isn't the point, but that we were persuaded to have the vaccination by them telling us that it stopped us giving covid to other people.

But that was the old variant. They can change all the information, and all the promises they like, because none of it applies to the NEW variant.

Having recently had a disaster with the flu vaccine not being modified enough, and many dying as a result, you would expect them to alter the vaccine to account for the changes,(as they said) and to allow it to stop transmission as well as protect.

However, not only did they not modify it (when they said it would be simple, and done every year) but just when the "mutation" happened, they opened everything up and ensured that it spread and took over.
Almost as if they wanted it to.

Opening up may or may not have made a difference, but their bullying covid regulations are made on the assumption that they DO.
Yet they ignored their own (stupid) policies.

The existence of a variant gives them an excuse for why the predictions and promises have turned out to be hogwash, when they allowed (encouraged?) it to happen.

Sorry the explanation is so long winded.

The short version is simply... MUTATIONS MY ARSE!

Honey, I know you weren't commenting on lockdown efficacy. I just wasn't sure exactly the point you were making; but thanks for explaining.

I suppose where I disagree is the assumption that because there is a new variant and they have said vaccines are - to any meaningful level - effective at preventing transmission, that this is something to either take on trust or hold them to.

It has an unpersuasive evidential base. Viruses have always mutated. Vaccines are great and need - as you say - to be adapted and updated regularly to mirror the virus. As with flu.

However, the notion that we should all get vaccinated to "save others" (whatever the current variant) is in my view not based on science but pure politics: the more who are vaccinated, the less will die. Good for Government after a relatively (world terms) high death count from a largrly benign and hyped virus.

It is, in short, politics.


Let those who wish to protect themselves get vaccinated, let those who don't face a small increased personal risk. But stop (Gov) guilt tripping & misleading people into getting vaccinated just because you don't want their death stat on your watch.

]Wyot wrote:
[quote

I suppose where I disagree is the assumption that because there is a new variant and they have said vaccines are - to any meaningful level - effective at preventing transmission, that this is something to either take on trust or hold them to.[/quote]

The new variant means the vaccine is not effective at preventing transmission, as they have said, but they are carrying on as if it is.
The "passport" nonsense could only "work" if the vaccine stopped transmission, and not testing vaccinated people at airports could only "work" if the vaccines stopped transmission.
It doesn't - so why are they still doing it, knowing that it is bullshit?







]Wyot wrote:
[quote
Viruses have always mutated. Vaccines are great and need - as you say - to be adapted and updated regularly to mirror the virus.[/quote]

And yet, it seems they have not even attempted to do so, and we need to ask why.


]Wyot wrote:
[quote



Let those who wish to protect themselves get vaccinated, let those who don't face a small increased personal risk.
[/quote]

Ideally yes. If I am fully protected by vaccination it makes no difference what others do, same with masks, mine works so why would I care what other people are wearing?

Except that because they have not even attempted to adjust the vaccine, we might be protected from death,(most of us) but not from a vicious illness that is causing time off work with sickness and isolation we could all do without.


]Wyot wrote:
[quote
But stop (Gov) guilt tripping & misleading people into getting vaccinated just because you don't want their death stat on your watch.[/quote]

Exactly. There are always breakthrough infections, but the efficiency for the current strain falls way too short.
The vaccination cant stop you passing on the virus.


Instead of modifying it so that each vaccinated person is sufficiently protected and just have the jab and never think about it again, they have chosen to keep us in a cycle of fear of transmission, illness, isolation, restrictions and all the rest of the bollocks, when in their own words it would be very simple to adjust the vaccine.

Any idea why?

It's incompetence over conspiracy any time in my opinion Honey; coupled with a total belief in ((or obedience to) media coverage.

KILLER PLAGUE is a better story than trivial virus.
SCARING the public gets mass obedience so governments can implement restrictions.
WE have become so simplistic that we no longer think deeply or examine anything.

JK2006 wrote:
It's incompetence over conspiracy any time in my opinion Honey; coupled with a total belief in ((or obedience to) media coverage.

KILLER PLAGUE is a better story than trivial virus.
SCARING the public gets mass obedience so governments can implement restrictions.
WE have become so simplistic that we no longer think deeply or examine anything.

It is possible that they are revelling in the virus so much that they have forgotten that the purpose was to stop people getting it, not to stop them going to football matches.

I didn't know they could make the vaccine more effective Honey but have chosen not to - not read or seen anything to that effect myself; but of course you may be correct.

I am with JK on incompetence over conspiracy; but they do seem to me to be deliberately misleading about linking the vaccine to transmission.

Why?

I think they want everyone vaccinated to stop the headlines and make it all go away...They are comfortable peddling fear; bullies.

I don't think the Gov want endless cycles of this; but they know that if media keep making so much of it they will have no choice.

They don't run the country alone. They are the weaker power in their partnership with the media; which just doesn't want to move on from the great horror story of the century (so far).