No mask mandates no lockdowns in Florida and less deaths than states that did this. America's Sweden:

nypost.com/2021/10/28/florida-gov-ron-de...-to-handle-covid-19/

I guess Covid must be afraid of the alligators...

Slowly the world catches on with even hysterical old Aus now admitting it can't eradicate Covid.

Stick to your guns this autumn & winter Boris for God's sake; lockdowns and masks - as you knew all along - are all smoke and mirrors...

the New York Post..owned by Rupert Murdoch and routinely parrots the same claptrap as Fox News.

Now importing several of Rupert's most extreme right wing Aussie journalists to shake things up.

The New York Post and Fox News..now run by heir apparent Lachlan Murdoch who chose to sit out the US Covid pandemic in a substantial Sydney mansion with his family..in lockdown..running the empire from what was described as a "high tech bunker" in his house.

The New York Post, Fox News and all Murdoch's media outlets, Australian newspapers (75% of the market) demand all employees have two Covid jabs and a booster if they wish to remain working there.

That would include Karol Markowicz

Well the stats about Florida could have been provided from anywhere Hedda; the particular paper wasn't really the point! But I am sure you are correct about the papers political alliegances.

"Apparently the testimony to the Hasidic Rabbinical court in New York City was useful, and a decision has been rendered. SARS-CoV-2 vaccination is absolutely forbidden in children, and cautioned for adults." www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/q...he_testimony_to_the/

Hopefully this decision will go some way towards overturning vaccine mandates, at least in the US and maybe in Israel too.

Wyot wrote:
Well the stats about Florida could have been provided from anywhere Hedda; the particular paper wasn't really the point! But I am sure you are correct about the papers political alliegances.

Florida is run by a right wing administration.

If they want their constituents to die of Covid they are going the right way about it.

Every Murdoch outlet including the NY Post routinely publishes anti-Biden/Democrat/ Mask etc claptrap.

Fact remains- you cannot work at the NY Post without 2 jabs and regular testing and have to wear a mask in their offices ..for now.

It's called hypocrisy

..and the claim "Slowly the world catches on." is incorrect when it's one US state with an administration with an extreme right wing agenda as this graph (New York Times) clearly shows that vaccination rates in the developed world are surging ahead..66% in the USA..remarkable given the size of the population.

The Shepple are winning this battle and the anti-vax mob are on the wrong side of history

ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

it's important that these blatant lies are called out for what they are..an agenda.

The author uses typical Murdoch sophistry in her wording that gives the impression that Florida's Covid rates are somehow below the rest of the US States.

Florida's Covid cases are larger than New York state which has a much larger population.

New York has had a fierce lock down as has California ..the highest Covid cases but with a population over twice the size of Florida.

Ore can play games with these numbers all day long..but it's meaningless but it's what News Corp is very good at.

Australia's lock downs have been fierce..and Covid deaths are tiny by comparison and compared to the rest of the world should be called a brilliant success.

Sweden with a population less than half Australia's has had nearly 15,000 deaths compared to Australia's less than 1500.

Playing silly games with figures is dangerous as is taking a News Corp hack's words seriously.

hedda wrote:
Wyot wrote:
Well the stats about Florida could have been provided from anywhere Hedda; the particular paper wasn't really the point! But I am sure you are correct about the papers political alliegances.

Florida is run by a right wing administration.

If they want their constituents to die of Covid they are going the right way about it.

Every Murdoch outlet including the NY Post routinely publishes anti-Biden/Democrat/ Mask etc claptrap.

Fact remains- you cannot work at the NY Post without 2 jabs and regular testing and have to wear a mask in their offices ..for now.

It's called hypocrisy

It may well be that journalists on the NY Post are hypocrites if the story suits them Hedda. This does not come as a shock to me.

Nevertheless, the lack of draconian measures in Florida, Sweden and many other places - with no predicted spike in deaths "from covid" compared to places that have shut down hard - in my view requires comment from lockdown apologists.

Why? Because they undermine the claims of a necessary link between lockdowns, masks and "saving lives".

Given the terrible harm lockdowns cause I don't think it is unreasonable to interrogate the flimsy evidence they are based on.

Yet no one ever gives a coherent response to this; anywhere.

hedda wrote:
it's important that these blatant lies are called out for what they are..an agenda.

The author uses typical Murdoch sophistry in her wording that gives the impression that Florida's Covid rates are somehow below the rest of the US States.

Florida's Covid cases are larger than New York state which has a much larger population.

New York has had a fierce lock down as has California ..the highest Covid cases but with a population over twice the size of Florida.

Ore can play games with these numbers all day long..but it's meaningless but it's what News Corp is very good at.

Australia's lock downs have been fierce..and Covid deaths are tiny by comparison and compared to the rest of the world should be called a brilliant success.

Sweden with a population less than half Australia's has had nearly 15,000 deaths compared to Australia's less than 1500.

Playing silly games with figures is dangerous as is taking a News Corp hack's words seriously.

Hedda do you not think lockdowns have caused deaths? Is so how many? If you don't know why not? You play "silly games" too with Covid deaths in absolute terms; why shy away from this with, e.g, cancer deaths? Why the Covid fetish?

Is the whole point of being now to prevent ANY death by Covid above ANYTHING else? If so, of course Aus has been a roaring success; and it is even possible (though far from proven) that your lockdowns may have even had something to do with it.

If Covid is not more important than other ways we can die, though, then the focus is political rather than rational or scientific; and you and others should not in my view be so questioningly accepting of these damaging measures just because a few hacks are obsessed with them...

hedda wrote:
..and the claim "Slowly the world catches on." is incorrect when it's one US state with an administration with an extreme right wing agenda as this graph (New York Times) clearly shows that vaccination rates in the developed world are surging ahead..66% in the USA..remarkable given the size of the population.

The Shepple are winning this battle and the anti-vax mob are on the wrong side of history

ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

I never mentioned vaccination rates Hedda. Make your point, fine, but please don't strawman me to do so.

As it happens I am as pro vaccination as you arw.

setting up a "strawman" is a News Corp specialty.

I have no idea whether lockdowns cause deaths.

# Florida had lockdowns..beaches, restaurants and so on. Probably need to know much more about population distribution and how locals have acted.


I listen to experts who say lock downs and mask wearing saves lives.

# Recently read old newspaper stories of lock downs in Oz in 1919 when the Spanish Flu killed 30,000 in a population of 5 million ..and they had the exact same lockdowns and mandatory mask wearing before it was over.

Difference is apparently everyone complied and there wasn't a hint of an "anti-lockdown" etc movement.

You brought up Sweden which avoided lockdowns and has had nearly 15,000 deaths in a population of little over 10 million.

Yet Melbourne and Sydney with a combined population of 12 million and of equal size and density has had about 1700 between them (yet Victoria has had twice as many as NSW although both were in lockstep re lockdowns)

I take notice of scientists, doctors and medical researchers.

Interesting article on the Covid deaths in Sweden.

www.businessinsider.com.au/sweden-covid-...2021-8?r=US&IR=T

A year and a half after Sweden decided not to lock down, its COVID-19 death rate is up to 10 times higher than its neighbors

Interesting report Hedda but curious in its focus of comparing Sweden to its immediate neighbours only.

Sweden has performed significantly better (deaths per 100 000) than UK,USA,Spain & Italy to take a few. A more balanced report would not just cherry-pick countries Sweden had a higher death rate than; but make a global comparison.

Additionally, Sweden had a very thorough ("aggressive") aporoach to classifying Covid compared to many countries - and yes its immediate neighbours.

A different take..

www.euronews.com/2021/10/29/sweden-s-cov...ys-commission-report

Vanguard wrote:
A different take..

www.euronews.com/2021/10/29/sweden-s-cov...ys-commission-report

Indeed Barney; one could spend a lifetime reading different points of view on any subject. My morning is richer for you reminding me of this....

Vanguard wrote:
A different take..

www.euronews.com/2021/10/29/sweden-s-cov...ys-commission-report

Thank you Barney, it was very interesting.

I should probably be offended by the stereotyping, but most of it is true except it is not a culture of conformity, but equality, which is quite different.