Desperate to make it worse - better story - media is trying to hype as much as possible. Are thousands dead? Nope. It seems very little bloodshed. It's in Ukrainian interest to make it look as serious as possible (to get Western aid) so exaggeration is required. The public very much likes to obey media instructions (don't the protests resemble those stupid Clap for the NHS campaign?). But a few marching gullibles supporting even fewer genuinely distressed doesn't mean mass protest (I suspect 99% of the UK cares not one jot though 98% feel they SHOULD at least clap... oops, march...). Personally I think the question is - Why didn't Ukraine sort out the problems in the East years ago? I'm not a fan of referendums (the majority of punters are clueless - it's why Democracy doesn't work) but it worked in Scotland.

Read between the lines...

www.kingofhits.co.uk/component/option,co...,2/id,219030/#219030

And is there an element of Ukrainians thinking both Government and Military are not reliable? That citizens would, frankly, prefer to live in a different country? Of course they are avoiding possible bloodshed (though there seems to be precious little of that so far) but what does it say about the population that they are so ready to get out?

JK2006 wrote:
but what does it say about the population that they are so ready to get out?

That they want to live.

Putin will not allow international "humiliation" to fall on his shoulders; that Ukraine is fighting back & this isn't going how he thought means either he will start firing ballistic missiles into Ukraine (that may or may not be nuclear-tipped) or his own side will take him out before he starts WW3.

Unfortunately, despite the obligatory media fake news and inflation, this shit is real, and happening.

Anyone else starting to get the feeling that the young Russians on the ground don't really want to fight (some of the footage is remarkable, Ukrainian folks wandering around Russian tanks, Russian tank driver just watching them...)? Putin has just "fired" his military chief shortly after he (Putin) upped the nuclear ante. Talks between the two sides in Belarus shortly. Can we hope this may all be about to implode - from within Russia? Something just isn't right about it all. But such a dangerous situation still now that Putin has shown the world he is insane. This is, you feel,all about one man. He is trying to leaf his country on a suicide mission and I have a feeling they will be the ones to stop him.

Wyot wrote:
Anyone else starting to get the feeling that the young Russians on the ground don't really want to fight (some of the footage is remarkable, Ukrainian folks wandering around Russian tanks, Russian tank driver just watching them...)? Putin has just "fired" his military chief shortly after he (Putin) upped the nuclear ante. Talks between the two sides in Belarus shortly. Can we hope this may all be about to implode - from within Russia? Something just isn't right about it all. But such a dangerous situation still now that Putin has shown the world he is insane. This is, you feel,all about one man. He is trying to leaf his country on a suicide mission and I have a feeling they will be the ones to stop him.
You'd hope someone would step in to stop him, but this article by Steve Rosenberg is pretty sobering.

Ukraine invasion: Would Putin press the nuclear button?

If Vladimir Putin did choose a nuclear option, would anyone in his close circle try to dissuade him? Or stop him?

"Russia's political elites are never with the people," says Nobel laureate Dmitry Muratov. "They always take the side of the ruler."

And in Vladimir Putin's Russia the ruler is all-powerful. This is a country with few checks and balances; it's the Kremlin that calls the shots.

"No one is ready to stand up to Putin," says Pavel Felgenhauer. "We're in a dangerous spot."

Wonderful stories starting to come in of Russian soldiers refusing to fight their brother Slavs in Ukraine and handing weapons over. Gov workers resigning in Moscow in huge numbers. Hope this is all true.

* Soldiers thinking for themselves! How is a dictator supposed to operate these days! Bring back the good old days *

Wyot wrote:
...Putin has just "fired" his military chief shortly after he (Putin) upped the nuclear ante....
Wyot wrote:
Wonderful stories starting to come in of Russian soldiers refusing to fight their brother Slavs in Ukraine and handing weapons over. Gov workers resigning in Moscow in huge numbers. Hope this is all true....
Where are you seeing these stories, Wyot?

Jo wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
...
Where are you seeing these stories, Wyot?

Random on line stuff Jo one was a link to the Express and another I can't recall. For some reason I can no longer paste links on this site...

The number of people who can't see that NATO expansion in Ukraine was a strategic error AND that Putin's invasion is morally wrong is actually mind-blowing. The majority can no longer think, just react.

This scares me almost as much as the nuclear potential we are currently living with.

You see it everywhere now. It was evident with Covid, to take one example, where questioning the need and sense of restrictions was conflated with questioning whether Covid could kill people.

It is quite deliberately done by those in power and has come to be mistaken for thinking by most people.

It is so scary because propaganda becomes the new God; 24-7 on rolling media. Controlling you through your phone. 1984.

Took a bit longer than Orwell thought, but it is here.

Yes but I don't think it is all deliberate. I think, often, they simply do not understand how media works. That's why their "vaccine has stopped Covid" story is completely carried and hyped by media instead of the fact that most of the vulnerable have died, which impacts present and future deaths. Neither is completely the truth; both are ingredients.

Likewise "Putin is mad" may be partly true but there is much more to it. Media - enamoured of the "we are all about to die" story - seems to ignore the fact that the current death rate in "the war" is 106 people. After a week. And as a result we can all be certain that, inspired by media coverage, it will get far, far worse - with THOUSANDS of dead - almost all caused by media coverage and reaction to it.