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Jo wrote: Green Man wrote: Wyot wrote: Why don't they immediately demand to know if the offender read books or not?
The police do also, one example is Colin Stagg, they put him in a bracket as he had a book on the occult.
Then there was Barry George who owned a bundle of BBC in-house magazines.
If I remember correctly, Barry George had also posed in a photo with a handgun, had an empty handgun holster in his home, had a speck of residue in a coat pocket that matched the kind of bullet/gun used, had stalked and assaulted women, had turned up in the grounds of Kensington palace, where Diana lived, armed with a rope and knife and had fantasised about his relationship with celebrities, e.g. claiming to be related to Freddie Mercury. Shortly before her death, Jill Dando was especially prominent, appearing on the front cover of the Radio Times and on the front cover of OK magazine with her fiancé, with a feature inside on her engagement and forthcoming marriage. In MWT's documentary "The Dando Files", he interviewed Barry George, who said that he didn't know Jill Dando lived near him or even who she was. That seemed implausible to me (anyone who didn't know who the omnipresent Jill Dando was back then, even without a house full of old newspapers and magazines and a record of celebrity obsession like Barry George, must have been living under a rock) and therefore suspicious. I think it's perfectly possible she was killed by a fantasist who was enraged by the fact that she was getting married and got lucky. Green Man wrote: When you look at the photo the man holding the gun and Barry George they look nothing alike they eyes don't match. It looks like Milorad Ulemek
Also how do we know it was a just a prop gun.
FYI. Jo, gunpowder specks do not directly match the bullet.
I never said George was innocent but he is innocent of murder, he needed professional help even the prison should have arranged that. He is lucky to a have a loving sister by his side.
Everything was circumstantial evidence. I have read on numerous forums written by people who knew Barry George locally, most say the same things, like he was just a div, rode buses all day, never seen him in a taxi or ordered one outside his home, he was terrible at walking let alone running. Barry George was known to the police for stalking so he is was already on their rader. The media keep changing the story that he left the scene by taxi to bus or by foot.
When the murder happened close by to Barry George they picked him. How do we not know the police planted some gunpowder or George picked up the coat from a charity shop with residue already inside? Not forgetting he lived in squaler so I doubt he did much washing.
I don't trust the police at all Jo.
When George was freed, the leading copper said, We ain't looking for anyone else. Something is odd with that response. Are the police scared or told not to investigate, as powerful people are involved?
Berttas are rare in the UK but common in the rest of Europe and they have strong ties with Serbia. Green Man wrote: Barry George, who said that he didn't know Jill Dando lived near him or even who she was.
Sounds like the police tried to catch him out. Many of us normies don't know celebrities personally; we only hear about them. We tend to say we heard of/about him/her/them.
George was not charged over the incident, and his files were destroyed as a matter of course six years later.
It's odd, no charges were brought or even the police kept a file if he was caught in the bushes of Kensington Palace with a knife and rope. Or the guards didn't pop him off there and then.
He told MWT (video below) that he didn't know that Jill Dando lived near him or even who she was. He apparently said this to the police:
During police interviews, George said he didn't know Dando or where she lived before her death was in the news.
"I have never seen Jill Dando in the flesh in any shape or form," he said.
Saying "in the flesh" suggests he had seen images of her, so was lying to the police and later to MWT that he didn't know who she was.
He apparently didn't get compensation because the High Court thought that "jurors could still reasonably have convicted him despite new evidence that led to his acquittal" (Barry George loses compensation case).
There was a documentary about the case in 2019 (video below). Various people were interviewed, including the police officer who headed the investigation. It was pretty clear he thought Barry George had done it.
Nick Ross thinks the same. This is a long read, but interesting. www.nickross.com/who-killed-jill-dando/ He addresses many of the issues, e.g. the Serbian hitman theory, the idea that George wasn't bright enough to commit the crime, the gunshot residue evidence.
Miscarriages of justice seemed to flourish under Blair's New Labour. Not convinced that the Met got the Barry George thing right at all. This was a man with learning difficulties. Under pressure and confused and frightened? In police interview? I don't think we will ever know the truth. But I do wonder if the Labour government put pressure on the Met to capture the culprit. George ticked a few boxes. A fabulously attractive blonde female celeb isn't killed every day. Tabloids dream story. Then of course there's Michael Stone. I am convinced he's innocent. That's a whole new topic though.
Gun magazines were found, so fucking what, another pointless and antigun argument. You can buy gun magazines in almost any newsagent and some newsagents do special orders. Were they mail order or did he buy them in person? If so I would have liked to hear the shop owner in court. More character witnesses are better.
I read music magazines, they never turned me into a musician.
Interesting to see the police style of questioning of George where they told at least one outrageous lie...that Dando's killer was seen leaving the scene in the same style 3/4 length coat George may have worn that day.
There was of course no sighting of her alleged killer but it's just a small indication of how a case can be built against someone on lies.
I don't know, JK, in the flesh, Jo, but I have heard of him. I don't trust the police at all, and they are good at gaslighting, deflecting and twisting the truth and tampering with evidence.
I doubt I could spot JK down the street, unless he burst into song like Gene Kelly singing one of his songs from the back catalogue. JK looks like any other OAP in the UK.
Do you burst into song, JK, while walking around the streets of London, France, or Morocco?
I would love to see JK do a Gene Kelly whilst he sings Ways to Be Wicked and jumping and swinging on lamp posts. If I witnessed that, and a brief chat afterwards, then went for a tea for two with fancy sandwiches, then I could say I know JK.
I had no idea Tom Petty recorded it until tonight. I know he wrote and gave it to Lone Justice, and JK did an incredible cover.
hedda wrote: Interesting to see the police style of questioning of George where they told at least one outrageous lie...that Dando's killer was seen leaving the scene in the same style 3/4 length coat George may have worn that day.
There was of course no sighting of her alleged killer but it's just a small indication of how a case can be built against someone on lies.
I of course haven't a clue who killed her.
There apparently were sightings of someone and sightings of Barry George.
Detectives investigating the murder of Jill Dando on Monday have released an E-fit of the chief suspect.
The picture shows a white man with short dark or black hair, seen by several witnesses on and around Fulham Palace Road shortly after Dando's killing at 11.30am. He was sweating heavily and had a mark on the bridge of his nose that suggested he had been wearing glasses. ... Most witnesses gave similar descriptions of the man wearing a dark suit and carrying a mobile phone who was seen near Dando's home before and after the murder. Witnesses 'saw agitated suspect'
Witnesses also claim to have seen him on the day of the murder, looking red-faced and agitated, said Mr Pownall.
Mr Pownall said that two days after the killing Mr George had tried to get a local disability centre to confirm what time he had visited on the day of the murder.
At that point he was not a suspect and the police had not even issued an e-fit of the man they were looking for, although press reports had mentioned a smartly-dressed man with dark hair.
Mr Pownall asked: "What did the defendant have to fear? Why did he feel impelled to seek verification of his movements.
"Were his actions merely an irrational response to a misguided belief that he might become a suspect, or were they the actions of a man who knew he was responsible and was doing his level best to create an alibi?"
One of the foremost profilers in the US, Pat Brown, says too many coincidences end up with Barry George to be ignored and is contemptuous of armchair theorists who think he must have been either too dim or too nice to kill. Such people, she says, plainly know little about personality disorders, or indeed criminal profiling. www.nickross.com/who-killed-jill-dando/
Under the video, she also posts this reply to someone who draws parallels between Colin Stagg and Barry George:
I think, Lyndon, that the two cases are significantly different. One was seriously bad profiling where Paul Britton made up a profile that was not based on evidence but the kind of imaginative profiling often also employed by the FBI….where you decide in your head what kind of guy committed the crime and then try to find a guy that matches that imaginary perpetrator.
George was a stalker who lived near enough to Dando. How Dando was killed was not inconsistent with the kind of crime a stalker commits, similar to, for example, John Lennon’s murder.
Nickell’s murder was that of a serial killer. That is all they could really know from that crime - not that he was a loner who was into satanic stuff. That is where the imagination of the profiler caused them to target someone who didn’t necessarily have a thing to do with the crime. Stagg was a good suspect with his history, so it was reasonable to investigate him.
Comment in response to someone saying they thought Jill Dando's murder was a planned killing:
It certainly did not appear to be a hit; it was a planned something as in a stalker looking to get his target in his sights. Whether he meant to kill her at that moment or thought he could control her is hard to say. Lots of stalkers have no problem killing their obsession as long as that makes them the last person their obsession interacts with.
Comment in response to someone saying they thought Jill Dando had been killed because she'd been investigating the nail bomber, the establishment and Savile:
Yeah, there is no evidence that there is any amazing stuff that would lead to her death, especially one that was not professionally done. England is not a country where new hosts get knocked off for presenting shows. She was NOT an investigative reporter doing deep research into any extremely dangerous subject. This is like saying someone like John Walsh would be killed for being the host of America’s Most Wanted. When journalists get killed it is because they go deep into the jungle of Brazil after a story or dig up political connections to Colombia’s Pablo Escobar. All these wild theories being thrown about are just that….wild theories.
This guy, whose YouTube profile says he has a Ph.D. in Counselor Education and Supervision and is a Licensed Professional Counselor of Mental Health (LPCMH) and a Licensed Chemical Dependency Professional (LCDP) (I've seen some of his other videos, and he seems to be to talk sense - I also like his dry humour), thinks Jill Dando was killed by a stalker or Barry George.
Comment from under the video:
I was just gaining my BA in Criminal Psychology at the time, and as the story unfolded (over the years) my thoughts were Barry George or stalker also!
If you want to go on deep dives with Lennon, I am more willing to come down that route.
I have heard that Barry George used a starting pistol. I want to know if Barry George knew the right know-how and dexterity to manipulate the starting pistol.
The police should have done dexterity tasks. I don't believe the police at all. GSR testing is very unreliable.
People say that Barry George dressed shabbily, not smartly. Not all suits are smart or sharp.
What made Stagg a good suspect? There seems to be a lot of misandry.
Sounds very feasible to me. This was the reason Barry sought out an alibi at the nearby minicab office, as he had already been hauled in by the police over the Rachel Nickell murder?
Now here he is with another woman murdered a few streets away! What would barry be thinking?
Sh*t, the cops are going to try and pin this one on me as well. Where was I on Monday 26th? H.A.F.A.D & The minicab office. So you now know WHY Barry needed and tried to provide himself with an alibi.
Nickell’s murder was that of a serial killer. That is all they could really know from that crime - not that he was a loner who was into satanic stuff. That is where the imagination of the profiler caused them to target someone who didn’t necessarily have a thing to do with the crime. Stagg was a good suspect with his history, so it was reasonable to investigate him.
What do you mean by Satanic stuff? I watched a documentary where the police searched Staggs' house and found books. Is reading a crime? Beatles and Led Zep were in the occult, and Aleister Crowley. Stagg did have a girlfriend but I doubt he had many and there is nothing wrong with that. he may have had long-term girlfriends rather than friends with benefits or one-night stands. Black walls are nothing new; when the Crow came in the cinema out a lot of people experimented with the goth subculture.
Why didn't the police look into Simon Le Bon? He is into Paganism and the occult and lives/lived in Roehampton, but London was not as big in the mid 90s as it is today.
Stagg's childhood nickname was Monk because he was happier reading and painting than hanging out
Again, he probably wanted to keep to himself and stay away from trouble. I have no experience living on council estates, but it sounds like he wanted to stay out of trouble and chose people wisely.
I can't be bothered to go back and view the police interview but I thought the interviewing cop said to Barry George that a suspect had been spotted leaving the scene wearing the same style coat as George may have been wearing that day, rather than what I thought cops had always said that there were several suspect people seen in the area that day.
Of course the police are actually allowed to lie during their investigations if it gets to the truth.
Interesting how that cop also says very now and then "did you kill Jill Dando" as though to catch him out.
One of the great mysteries of our time along with the Madeline McCann disappearance.
hedda wrote: I can't be bothered to go back and view the police interview but I thought the interviewing cop said to Barry George that a suspect had been spotted leaving the scene wearing the same style coat as George may have been wearing that day, rather than what I thought cops had always said that there were several suspect people seen in the area that day.
Of course the police are actually allowed to lie during their investigations if it gets to the truth.
Interesting how that cop also says very now and then, "did you kill Jill Dando" as though to catch him out
I would not be surprised if the police got a gun from their lock-up and used it as evidence in court. I don't trust the fuzz, they want a conviction, but they don't care if the person is innocent or not.
I am sure many people wear similar coats. I am no body language expert, but when people repeat the question that is given to them, it buys them time to give an excuse and make up something, nor did he sit arms folded or hold his head down.
At 1040 BST that morning, window cleaner Alan Taylor, who was working nearby, saw a person with light coloured hair, smartly dressed in a light grey two-piece suit talking into a mobile phone.
This was about the time Ms Dando would have pulled up outside her front door, the newspaper reports.
The suspect was seen loitering outside Ms Dando's house and was described as looking like an estate agent.
Mr Taylor was the only person to see the person he described, and told them the person was stocky, 5ft 8in tall, with blonde hair.
But the newspaper says he has since complained that police did not take his description seriously, or made sufficient appeals to find them.
He believes the person he saw "could be female".
"I can't believe the police haven't considered this before," he told The Sunday Mirror.
Was the man with blonde ever questioned, or was he too posh and well spoken to be a suspect? Police and media love the eccentrics. Christopher Jefferies came to mind, he looked like an Andy Warhol impersonator, he made a good story for the MSM and another easy pick for the police.
Interesting points, GM. I didn't know that Barry George was questioned over the Rachel Nickell murder. It certainly seems plausible that he could have been an innocent man who panicked in case he was questioned over the Jill Dando murder and tried to give himself an alibi. Or he could have been the guilty party.
Jo wrote: Interesting points, GM. I didn't know that Barry George was questioned over the Rachel Nickell murder. It certainly seems plausible that he could have been an innocent man who panicked in case he was questioned over the Jill Dando murder and tried to give himself an alibi. Or he could have been the guilty party.]
He could be but I don't think he is.
At 1040 BST that morning, window cleaner Alan Taylor, who was working nearby, saw a person with light coloured hair, smartly dressed in a light grey two-piece suit talking into a mobile phone.
This was about the time Ms Dando would have pulled up outside her front door, the newspaper reports.
The suspect was seen loitering outside Ms Dando's house and was described as looking like an estate agent.
Mr Taylor was the only person to see the person he described, and told them the person was stocky, 5ft 8in tall, with blonde hair.
But the newspaper says he has since complained that police did not take his description seriously, or made sufficient appeals to find them.
He believes the person he saw "could be female".
More police incompetence then.
So was the woman, the ex-wife of Alan Farthing, or a relative? The divorce was finalised in 1999, a few months before the murder.
A woman scorned can be very dangerous. Another suspect, IMHO.
Crimping rounds is common mainly for rifles, even then it's not really needed, but you don't do need to do it with 9mm.
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