It appears that the police have been braking the law again (by bugging an MP - merely because he was visiting a Muslim).

The Ministry of Justice obviously believes there is some truth to the claims as they have rushed to announce an immediate inquiry !

Whenever the police have been given extra powers they have always abused them - which is why, in the past, extra safeguards have had to be put into place.

If the police have to fill-in a long form every time they stop and search someone - they only have themselves to blame, for having abused their rights previously.

Have ANY of these extra powers EVER resulted in a lowering of crime? NAH !

Give the police extra powers at your peril !

I believe the majority of our police do a very good job under very difficult circumstances.
Risking their lives on a daily basis and having to deal with all kinds of unpredictable situations.
The problem is we only hear (in the media) about the bad things within the police and very rarely about the good work our police do on a daily basis.
Sure there are bent coppers (there always has been) and it is those that give the majority of good policemen and women a bad name.

Ah Carl, I used to agree with you and I trusted the integrity of the majority of police.

However, where I made my mistake was failing to realise that the majority are incompetent and/or lazy (as they are in every profession).

Combine that with a morality which accepts that bending the rules and evidence is standard and acceptable behaviour and "assisting" witnesses is fine in order to get a conviction, and you have a truly dangerous social problem.

The majority of that tweaking and bending is never either reported, covered or even noticed. It's simply not a good story.

That was the worst moment in my recent experiences - when it dawned on me that the lines were being blurred in order to make claimants seem younger or to allow exaggeration seem truth (like being 95% true but just that tiny 5% false - where it was only the 5% that was either illegal or immoral)... and that the truth really didn't matter; only CONVICTION did.

Far less obvious or easy to condemn than deliberate corruption, but also far more insidious and dangerous.

Carl wrote:
Risking their lives on a daily basis and having to deal with all kinds of unpredictable situations.

Carl

Please don't exagerate - it is extremely rare for a policeman to be killed on duty. (If they suspect a dangerous situation then tend to go in mob handed - and shoot first !).

They have body armour, CS gas, Tazer guns, batons etc - AS STANDARD !

Virtually EVERY other profession has an equal - if not greater - risk.

YOU DO THEM NO JUSTICE BY TRYING TO "OVER SELL" THE SUPPOSED RISKS.

Its all very well the police having cs gas, batons etc but these things are not going to be much use when they are confronted by some idiot with a firearm.
The police are at a disadvantage straight away, look what happened with PC Sharon Beshinivsky.
I agree it is rare for a policeman to be killed on duty although that is little consolation to the families of the ones who are killed.
As for the police going in mob handed as you put it, I don't bloody blame them, why should they take any chances?

Carl wrote:
Its all very well the police having cs gas, batons etc but these things are not going to be much use when they are confronted by some idiot with a firearm.
The police are at a disadvantage straight away, look what happened with PC Sharon Beshinivsky.
I agree it is rare for a policeman to be killed on duty although that is little consolation to the families of the ones who are killed.
As for the police going in mob handed as you put it, I don't bloody blame them, why should they take any chances?

MOST of the above contradicts what you had previously stated !

btw - for your information - over 300 firefighters have lost their lives in the last 50 years (far more than the number of police officers) - and they managed to NOT shoot anyone at all !

How many are enough for you ITK?

1980 Francis Joseph O'Neill
1981 Michael Hawcroft
1981 Raymond Davenport
1981 Kenneth Robert Howorth
1982 Daniel Buckley
1982 James Brian Porter
1982 John Egerton
1982 John Sandford
1982 David Ian Haigh
1982 David Thomas Winter
1982 Peter James Wringe
1982 Mandy Dawn Rayner
1983 Angela Bradley
1983 Gordon Alexander Connolly
1983 Colin Morrison
1983 Stephen Paul Walker
1983 William Ross Hunt
1983 Jane Philippa Arbuthnot
1983 Noel Joseph Lane
1983 Stephen John Dodd
1983 Alexander Clive Negus
1984 Andrew Stephen Le Comte
1984 Stephen John Jones
1984 Yvonne Joyce Fletcher
1984 Brian John Bishop
1984 John Richard Speed
1985 John Frederick W. Beckett
1985 John William Fordham
1985 Keith Henry Blakelock
1986 Martin Bickersteth Bell
1986 John David Taylor
1986 William Wright
1987 Henry John Gauld Lawrie BEM
1987 Ian Wain Woodward
1987 Ronan Konrad A. McCloskey
1987 Roger Brereton
1988 Francis John Mason
1988 Gavin Richard Carlton
1989 Anthony John Salt
1989 Raymond Anthony Codling
1989 Ronald Raymond Hull
1989 Barry Saunders
1990 Laurence Peter Brown
1990 Peter Burnett
1991 Robert Chenery Gladwell
1991 Duncan Watts Clift
1991 Simon Clive Lilley
1991 Alan Derek King
1991 James Morrison
1992 Glenn Thomas Goodman
1992 Christopher John Wiggins
1992 Charles William Collett
1993 William Forth
1993 Patrick Dunne
1994 Derek John Carnie Robertson
1994 Lewis George Fulton
1995 Phillip John Walters
1995 George Pickburn Hammond
1997 Nina Alexandra Mackay
1999 Jeffrey Barry James Tooley
1999 Stephen Jones
1999 Raja Bashrat Ahmed
1999 Kulwant Singh Sidhu
2000 Jonathan Bruce Odell
2001 Roderick Norton Daniels
2001 Alison Armitage
2001 Malcolm Edward Walker
2002 Gary John Veal
2002 Bryan Reginald Moore
2002 Andrew Carl Munn
2003 Gerald Walker
2003 Stephen Oake
2003 Andreas Giovanni Newbery
2003 Andrew James
2003Ian Nigel Broadhurst
2004 Michael Swindells
2005 Jonathan Richard Speakman
2005 Sharon Beshenivsky
2006 Joseph Geoffrey Carroll
2007 Richard Gray
2007 Jonathan Charles Henry

Zooloo thank you.
The list you provide says it all.

Anyone losing their lives is a tragedy. But the list of deaths due to false and malicious allegations, usually encouraged by the police, is far larger and harder to find.

zooloo wrote:
How many are enough for you ITK?


SO ?

How many trawlermen have died (doing their job) ?

How many miners ?

The list is endless ... but NONE of these people are armed to the back teeth and inflicting misery on others, are they?

How many false convictions have there been ?

I've gone from believing our police were basically decent with a few bad apples (1999) to knowing they are generally lazy, incompetent, corrupt, immoral, crooked and wicked - with a few good apples.

I've had an E-Mail (many prefer private correspondence to public commentary) asking whether I resent the malice of the police in my case.

Answer - NO. For a start, I don't believe there was any malice - simply men and women doing their job, as they saw it. Sadly, their vision was flawed and their methods, whilst accepted in the force, were, I believe breaching natural morality anf justice.

Truth didn't come into it, as they knew.

And I also feel that we get the karma we deserve. I say that as society.

If we allow such behaviour (and it is global, not just British, and far worse in many other countries), we win the consequences.

The Tutsis and Hutus (?), the Serbs and Bosnians, the Westerners and the Iraquis - all these are humanity getting the karma it deserves and making the karma it receives, just as the Nazis and the Jews produced the Gaza strip and the suicide bombers. And the Crusades produced 9/11.

And not wishing to win your Sandwich Board vote - I do believe "the end of the world (as we know it) is nigh".

Humanity has become so immoral, unpleasant, nasty and cruel - to itself, let alone to other species - that it will shortly be extinguished.

If it happens, you won't be around to hear me say "I told you so".

I tend to agree, JK.

The current police "bugging" scandel is a classic example of "secret forces" at work. Bugging (of MPs) has been banned since Harold Wilson discxovered that MI5 were bugging him (and trying to destabilise his government). WHO gives these poeple the right to scupper democratically elected governments?

They claim the moral high ground - "we are doing it for national security etc" - but who decides what OUR best interests are?

I am quite capable of deciding for myself - as are many others.

This latest bugging is clearly an attempt to get some scurrilous "evidence" in an attempt to frame an innocent MP (who was speaking to one of his constituents, who just happens to have been imprisoned for having committed NO offence in this country !)

What DID the Queen mean when she told Paul Burrell that there were "forces that we know nothing about at work" ?

JK2006 wrote:

Humanity has become so immoral, unpleasant, nasty and cruel - to itself, let alone to other species - that it will shortly be extinguished.

Well, humans invented the concept of immorality, unpleasantness, nastiness and cruelty, as we did morality, pleasantness, niceness, and kindness. All exist, but it is the former four which make good stories, and, sadly, tend to inhabit the souls of those who crave power.

Nonetheless, as I've said before, the human race is going nowhere in the foreseeable future, unless the earth gets knocked out of orbit by a huge asteroid.

Humans are the only animal that blushes... and the only animal that has reason to.

I agree absolutely. I've just had a friend come through the most horrific 3 year experience-although by no means as bad as JK's. But he was found guilty of a criminal offence at his first trial and upon appeal found innocent. He never served jail time as he was always on bail but the stress has almost destroyed him mentally and only the support of his family and friends pulled him through.

Worst of all-it cost him his hard worked for, life savings-about 40,000 pounds ( again nothing like JK's expenses) but this is just cruelty beyond belief. This was money he was saving for his young families future.

And the reason-police lies. Will they ever be held acountable ?. Not on your nelly.

veritas wrote:
And the reason-police lies. Will they ever be held acountable ?. Not on your nelly.

Did they retire early (on health grounds) - with FULL pension?

Will he be making a claim for compensation, considering this has probably crippled him financially.

At least he didn't spend time in jail, so this blood sucking government can't compound their villainy by charging him rent.

And how many further false convictions will there be in the future?

I have no faith in the system - it's corrupt.