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music.ninemsn.com.au/blog.aspx?blogentry...mp;showcomments=true

No, I didn't know but coupled with the info that the No3 album in the USA sold a mere 11,000 copies backs up my theory that the music industry is collapsing under a giant load of mediocrity.

Well my theory, based on your past posts JK, is that The Spice Girls achieved success through hype and chart rigging. Without that they don't have the talent or popularity to sustain a career, their comeback flopped, their musical flopped etc.

Am I getting warmer?

There's not too much wrong with that K... I have nothing against hype and chart rigging (morally) but it's silly when the product or project doesn't warrant the expense. It DID for the Spice Girls - but the brand ended long before the hype ran out. Which is a lot of the problem today - executives don't care enough or know enough.

JK2006 wrote:
There's not too much wrong with that K... I have nothing against hype and chart rigging (morally) but it's silly when the product or project doesn't warrant the expense. It DID for the Spice Girls - but the brand ended long before the hype ran out. Which is a lot of the problem today - executives don't care enough or know enough.

For clarity's sake Jk can you confirm just what exactly you mean by 'chart rigging (morally)'? If you mean (as I hope you do) the art of strategically releasing a certain record at a certain time of year to maximise its chart position then I agree that there is nothing wrong in that - its just knowing your product, doing your homework about sales figures and being professional. Any other kind of chart rigging though I think makes a mockery of the whole point of the charts.

I still think the main reason behind the downturn in sales though is NOT the mediocrity of today's artists its the huge advances in technology which have created a scenario where it is virtually unnecessary now to pay for music. Young kids these days swap mp3's or download from illegal websites, then there are the 'streaming' sites where people can listen to stuff for nothing - not just a radio show - EXACTLY what they want to listen to. If you can do that why buy anything?

Old school guys like me WANT the CD, we WANT the packaging and we grew up with the idea of collecting fav artists singles and albums. Since the music business RUINED the charts by creating the scenario where records reached their highest position first week of release the whole 'charts thing' has been devalued and the youth of today have moved onto gaming and BMX.

Sad, but true I fear...

When I hyped the charts Tony, it was in the knowledge that the project being hyped was a hit, preparing to break. Sadly other executives learned the methods without the intelligence about the product (and not investing their own money)... that's what ruined the chart; unpopular tracks appearing popular, dominating the TV and radio, lower sales, public interest drops away...

A good example of a "positive" hype was for The Pretenders' "Brass In Pocket". Their first 2 singles had stalled in the mid-30's on the chart, and it looked as if this 3rd single was going to do the same or worse, as it was getting even less radio play than the others... with the album also about to be released, the label did a bit of judicious rigging, just enough to get the single into the top 30 and the band on TOTP, and the rest is history - a number 1 single and album, worldwide success, and a career still ongoing...

I think JK's overall point is correct, that "hype" became standard operating procedure for every label and every act, which defeated the object, and effectively spoiled it for everyone... and I still see the Spice Girls as some kind of mass hypnosis that the world submitted to for a few years, and after we all woke up, wondered "what were we thinking?", hence the somewhat, er, "chequered" results of their various solo ventures, stage show etc.

The hit driven major label model is collapsing before our very eyes.
People are tiring the boom and bust approach by labels, employing the usual suspect
songwriters and producers, music by numbers in search of a hit.
Geri is a perfect example of this. On paper it should do well but it is actually not
great. The song is decent enough but it seems rushed, too much autotune and made in 5 minutes.

I disagree with K about the Spice Girls as they genuinely did something great and their albums
were actually quite good.

The sales era is over, get over it. Those who still live for sales will be disappointed. It is
going to get worse. Streaming is king now and not necessarily Spotify. Technology has liberated
everyone. The public, artists and even labels but you know how it is. Those who have been enslaved
can't cope with freedom and long for the chains.

Even those who moan about Youtube and Google really have missed the point. Set up your own streaming
solution, heck even use free downloads to achieve the same if you have to. It's about building your
own followers. Twitter is used by a lot of adult performers who build a following and extract gifts,
money etc from the fans in return for live shows, merchandise etc. That industry suffers as much
as the music industry but yet continues to innovate and evolve. They have had subscription sites since
forever and we are still moaning about the collapse of sales. The fans have voted and are voting with
their wallets. They don't want to buy your music anymore. Adapt to the freemium model or quit.

Katy Perry, Miley etc are still popular but they are tied to the old model. Look at the Kardashians.
Not a single talent between them but they continue to succeed in everything they do and make lots of
money in the process. Artists should ditch the recording industry and jump on the social/video networking
industry with music as a premium gift for their fans. With followers you get clout, can perform live or
even create your own TV show and why not.

SALES IS DEAD - LONG LIVE STREAMING!

You miss the point KZ; of course times are changing; of course sales are declining and this new model has two terrible aspects. No filtering means lazy creativity; people end up completing music before it's ready, like MichelAngelo not bothering with David's hands or feet (too fiddly, why bother, nobody will notice).

You can stream within minutes so most people do, without honing or improving the music.

Secondly, there is, as a result, so much stuff out there that great music is not being noticed. Mass appeal sounds, crossing out of the tiny taste ghetto, is dying whereas, years ago, it slowly emerged.

Because it's so easy and cheap to do, we're swamped with crap and the jewels are being drowned. That bothers me.

Sorry JK which point have I missed?
The majors are not really partaking of the new model but
their sales are declining. They still dominate radio but do
not have the sales like they used to. Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus
Macca, Elton John are all dealing with less than stellar sales
with all the promotion and money spent on their products.

Fans are voting with their feet and with streaming why buy an album
especially one you would not play more than once or twice.
You think that the lack of a filter is a bad thing well actually I don't.
Quality will rise to the top. Gotye's big hit was booted into touch by
the filters. They did not play it but it broke via Youtube and Twitter.

The problem with the filters is that they are easily manipulated always
have been always will be and are so conservative and focus driven they
will never spot a genuine hit unless it ticked all the boxes of their
prejudices. Also they haven't exactly gone away and are still out there
in labels, on radio, in the magazines etc. Problem is the fans are NOT
listening to them and are gravitating towards peer to peer recommendations.
Ask young people and they will tell you.

Also one man's finished product is another man's crap. Many people will
consider your stuff as crap, unfinished, etc but who are they or you for that
matter to say that? If you don't like it ignore it. People do and that is
why they are rising to the top.

Yes KZ filters can be bad - missing hits, not playing good tracks - it was always so. Great US music could not get on TV until Entertainment USA played it. But we DID play it (filtering out the 99% that was rubbish) and, because we picked the very best, we got ratings of 9 million viewers, who then bought the music and spread the word even more.

A&R filtered out many talents (Beatles turned down by several labels) but they came through eventually and the GOOD aspects of EMI filtering (George Martin, the decisions on which singles, the promotion people) improved the music and broke it to millions of fans.

These days it's so easy that a lot of potentially good music is released before it's ready, and is crap. Because there's no GOOD filtering (honest, straight charts, powerful TV and radio with enormous listenership) music makers have to settle for small groups of fans. Unless you're instant and catchy and can't fail (Gotye, Gangnam) you are simply not noticed in the deluge of crap.

BAD filtering is bad (playlists led by hyped charts) - GOOD filters are not just good but essential. It may be painful to be told your track isn't good enough (and damaging if they are wrong) but it's very beneficial if it's good because the music gets improved and the vast audiences break it to much larger crowds. And true art deserves and needs greater consumption.

What we have now is mediocre music heard by millions of tiny groups and great music heard by virtually nobody.

I agree with you JK but this could only work when you have less channels, less radio, less music, less opportunities. Problem is we haven't had a decent hit in ages and the 2 examples of real hits you mentioned were broken by YouTube one of the new model tools. Make no mistake the new model will churn out hits but not from the major label system. Granted Gangnam style was on a major but were it not for the internet he would NOT have had a release in the West.

The problem is the majors have become so formulaic and scared they have lost the plot. Instead of finding exciting artists whatever their style or AGE they constantly favour young popettes and contrived artists and farm them off to writing teams instead of just loving music and signing great artists.

Artists without pressure will deliver hits as long as they have a bit of guidance and management but left to their own devices.

Another problem is music has splintered into so many sub cultures each hating the other that a real hit will never come from them. Gotye happened because he was off the radar. Now he has been pigeon holed into the hipster camp and guess what no more hits.

The only answer is to let this whole charade die and rebuild it the right way and for this reason I am glad the music business is in free fall as the chancers will leave and go do something else.

YouTube is the only place that can deliver a true mass appeal record and it will. Viva the new model!

Don't agree KZ - the "music industry" is not the major labels or the radio or TV - it's everything and it always, constantly changes. I don't blame any specific area - that's too easy. You Tube (in the process of going off, like My Space did) is just another ingredient; great when it started, even better when it matured, now collapsing. Read Lefsetz on their awards - very good.

What you're doing - very natural and most of my friends are doing it - its finding excuses for failure but ignoring the difficult truth; the music isn't good enough.

The only answer is to improve the music.

Others will sort out how it gets found, exposed, sold, conveyed. Although they, too, will waste time finding further excuses for failure.

I've tried both. Clearly my music didn't improve enough and my new model only slightly worked, possibly because the music wasn't good enough (or mass appeal enough).

I've been here before KZ - several times. Breaking hits was just as hard in the early 70s.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with in what I just said nevertheless that's your choice. I am not making any excuse for failure. In fact I am pointing out exactly
why the failure is happening. I am also not talking about any of my own project none of which I have made public until everything is right to my satisfaction. You talk about
how great filters are but I am dealing with facts not theory. The filters have failed us and people are voting with their feet or their wallets and are not buying music like
they used to and they probably never will. They are also spending more time on Youtube than on TV and by the way Youtube is not going anywhere anytime soon.

The 2 biggest hits of the last couple of years got their break not on radio, nor TV but Youtube. It was after they were hits on Youtube did the blessed filters kick in and did their job and did it well. The filters are biased towards the majors though that may be changing and as a result the majors are getting more and more conservative leading to less diversity and less real hits. Minority music does not a hit record make.

Yes we should make the music and yes we should improve it but NO we should not leave it to others to sort out how it gets exposed or sold that is OUR job. We are a business
and should be more business minded. The others have failed us and quite frankly don't deserve another chance. I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

No, we agree to agree KZ; if you agree with my definition of FILTERS... talented, intelligent A&R men (and women) who make constructive comments and suggestions and help the creative artistes to improve the product - THEY are my FIRST essential filters. They should decide and dictate what comes out where, how and when, not the artistes who get too close to the project to be objective. SECOND essential filters - executives who decide which warrant the expense, effort and energy needed to break the hits and get it right more often than not. Essential. If the artistes don't like one set of filters, find another, but they are SO needed and SO missing. THIRD filter - great, hugely rated radio and TV which exposes and raves about great music (and all music has different lovers of it but someone has to decide which is mass appeal and potentially populist). Another missing element - there are none. I don't care if they are online or what, they must be great and get huge audience because they are great and pick the right music - an essential filter. You Tube is not going anywhere - like My Space - they continue and thrive but can lose their charm and impact when they get too big (like You Tube has) and have no FILTERS (which nothing online yet has).

All those positive, constructive filters separate the wheat from the chaff. Because we have no filters - all we've got in music is chaff!