Worth a thread to itself.

Surely this is the way for the majors to go; set up a division which uses existing departments (royalties, legal, manufacture, distribution, collection etc) to look after anyone who wants to plug into the machine.

Slowly wind down their own projects which don't work and increase the effort on those Vanity Projects which start showing signs of expansion.

The shareholders would rather like it as well.
If for example, E.M.I. take this route, they are going to have to move pretty fast.
They have the staff (a few left I think) and finance to turn it around quite quickly.

It`s better for the consumer as well, whilst there are sales happening amongst DIY and a tremedous improvement in Independent digital and phsyical distribution in the new model indie companies, they still mostly have their toes testing the water for warmth.

It seems better to me for everyone to use the vastly expierenced people, that said, A+R are still needed as well.
Just because a little old man has recorded "Auld Lang Syne", remortgaged his house, and played it on a ukelele with a dog whining behind him should not neccesarily constitute a guaranteed release, otherwise a vanity sector of a major will have no value.
Terms and conditions have to be adhered to by the vanity artist to maintain the labels` past heritage.

Exactly JK. The majors should take a leaf out of google's books and ensure that they are reaching all levels of the music industry. Though on the other hand perhaps we need a new company who has the foresight and are savvy enough to pull this off.

Vanity publishing is what it is - vanity.

With vanity publishing, where somebody pays to have their book printed and poorly bound has only every produced a tiny number of readable books.

The overwhelming number of vanity published books are in cardboard boxes in the corner of a garage. This means a high feeling of dissatisfaction, "It can't be my writing ability that's at fault so it must be the publisher". Not good for a record labels reputation.

Granted the labels need to find a better way than "all or nothing" with signing new talent. I have some suggestion but don't want to make them this public.

Vanity publishing as I understand it is nothing to do with professional writing. The same would be true for music.

I`ve said this before in a different thread, quoting slightly Umberto Eco, you over press, and charge the "client" to buy the beloved art back when it is not sold.

It does keep the artist in a fine frame of mind as to how big their audience will be, when they realise from the outset it is their cash being spent.

Acts with advances often tend to forget this fact.

Zooloo while i can see your point i think that type of thinking is not only out of date it is typically used by the 'so called' powers that be to write off anyone else outside of their system.

It is absurd to say that paying for one's own publishing is 'vanity' or unprofessional. It is like saying launching your own company to sell baked beans is vanity or small businesses are really just hobbyists with a bit too much time on their hands.
The whole notion of labelling something 'vanity' publishing is to denigrate what people who have a talent/dream or damn it even a hobby are doing.

Let's not even talk about the vanity of those who signed acts on a whim or because they liked or worse were bonking the lead singer.

JK's point is the way the industry is going whether we like it or not and yes there will be a lot of dross and yes everyone will think that they are going to be famous but you know what ? I actually thing that is a good thing. Democratising the whole music industry is only natural. We all have rhythm and music within us. The difference of course is that with limited resources and opportunities good material will float to the surface.

With the rise of blogging/myspace etc 'vanity' publishing is big business. Making someone money who should be by rights paying for the content but no they are exploiting the works of others no matter how banal or dross it may be.

The majors had better begin to create service oriented departments where they can at least make some money from the rise of the DIY band and like has been mentioned on that other great board, DIY artists only exist because the pros have cocked it up royally or were finding many ways to rip them off.

Also Zooloo why can't you share your ideas in this debate. I challenge you that there is nothing that you are thinking that others are not thinking and by lurking and taking from this great thread without contributing your ideas is wrong plain wrong.

Now ive got that off my chest.

Man UTD for the Treble.

Oops I think you just lost Terrylamps there, KZ.

But you're right on one point - it is too late to do anything about it; we need to accept the inevitable and move onwards and UPWARDS from here.

And letting loads of no talent be heard is nothing new anyway; the gems will shine through. That's why I'm happy for anyone to post their tips on here; unlike other boards we will not censor music and we encourage enthusiasm.

One man's meat is another man's poison so we are BUTCHERS FOR ALL!

DJKZ wrote:
Zooloo while i can see your point i think that type of thinking is not only out of date it is typically used by the 'so called' powers that be to write off anyone else outside of their system.


This may be a question of semantics. I'll define what I mean when I use "vanity".

In publishing vanity refers to the industry that will print your book for you and no more than that. Most often the quality, content and the book, is poor.

The alternative is "Self-publishing" which is akin to starting your own business. In this respect the quality of content is at least near professional.

For musicians self-publishing already exists - the music industry gets involved after the event and I don't see how it can be otherwise.

When I use the term vanity it is quite specific and inherently a bad idea.

On sharing ideas there is a limit to what can sometimes be said because of considerations I have for other people. At worst this means I have to stick to the general and avoid the specific.

Perhaps I used a careless phrase, but I feel to say I am simply lurking and failing to contribute is unfair.

no offence intended. Good luck with your endeavours.
Ps; Tipsheet rocks !

DJKZ wrote:
no offence intended. Good luck with your endeavours.
Ps; Tipsheet rocks !

Thank you but... I really took no offence at all. Indeed I apologise to you if it seemed I did - this mutual apologising lark could go on for a very long time

Yes... Tipsheet does rock

I don`t think the term Vanity publishing should fit quite the same way as it does in book publishing a politer term to please the artistes is Self Funded.

There is a delicous irony here this week.

The biggest selling "Self Funded"(to be polite)album of the seventies is being given away free with the Mail on Sunday this week.

How very ironic when we are debating this subject.

But as we have said, vanity publishing is already upon us and I believe it is the duty of the dinosaurs to exploit what they have been sitting with their mouths open watching grow out of control.

It`s no good waiting for a meteorite attack this time.