Rhodri Marsden decided to make a record and did so; it's had over 250,000 YouTube views so far via networking BUT... only 58 paid downloads!

The reason being - it's not very good. It's not bad but it's not very good either!

Read the article in the Mail today Tuesday.

www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/...amp;amp;in_a_source=

And watch the (not very good) video which cost

Another example of what can be done with time and imagination. Unfortunately done with something substandard so it fails.

One day there will be something good enough to stand on it's own that is promted successfully. Looking forward to that.

How tiresome you are, JK, having to shoehorn a reference to yourself in.

Great article, highlighting how the DIY new "revolution" of getting your music out there isn't as straightforward as it seems.

I love the song too.

Heh - glad you disliked it, JK. The piece was hacked down by about half by the Mail; the original feature appeared in full in The Independent last Thursday. Full text here -

arts.independent.co.uk/music/features/article2912169.ece

Didn't dislike it Rhodri; quite liked it actually but it just isn't quite good enough - especially for an experiment like this.

Album track - fine? Breakthrough hit proving you can make it on your own? It needs to be just as strong as You're Beautiful.

Delighted to welcome you to the board though - you'll find we are a very positive clan, free with constructive suggestions and keen to help anyone with enthusiasm, imagination and talent; all of which you clearly have.

I thought it was excellent. Not to mention a brilliant demonstration of what can be done on a less-than-shoestring budget.

I`ve actually heard and found this before, I thought it was rather fun, but, I must hold my hand up and say I didn`t tip it.
Well done Rhodri.

I recall trying to grab what it reminded me of,(sorry , I allways do that!) and I think I came up with Andrew Gold or something like that.

It is a great video actually, is it not a perfect example Rhodri, how you get one paper writing about you and then they all join in?
For this we can grateful sometimes and other times not of course.

Welcome and hi to SG as well, I am sure that anyone is allowed to "shoehorn" , as you put it, on their own website, or at least show their own authority, but hey, you read it so that`s cool.

Video is excellent.

What, "You're Beautiful" as in James Blunt? Come off it JK, this is a better song; and if Blunt had a budget of

I seriously worry about you, JK, if you rate "You're Beautiful" in any way. Surely none of the most inept and odious songs I've ever heard...also a prime example of how flinging a load of money (courtesy of Korda's wishes) can flog anything. Still, keep dreaming about "Riding A Reindeer" being the Zmas No.1!

I agree. An interesting concept let down by a "just OK" song. I think it proves the point that the good will out only when there is good to be outed.

thesunrayestate.com

Your name is as much on the line as a critic as is a performer and writer.
I was chastised yesterday for correctly pointing out that I had been sent a two track cassette recording converted to MP3 which was obviously hard to give a good reaction to.(Good ?Bad Awful?How could I tell when I could only hear screeching and a drum kit?)
I was as polite as possible, honest guv!

As for "You`re Beautiful", I can`t deny it was a good track, but I never understood the false start on the vocal.
I would have allways said "hit" on that one, although without ever having intention of wanting to own it personally.

By at least making an effort and being very practical and honest, Rhodri has contributed to the positive investigation of the "new model" industry which asks the questions...

** How, other than by the traditional radio/TV/press ways, do we make people aware of new talent - EXPOSURE.

** How can we convert VIEWS and LISTENS to SALES? Many of my tracks have thousands of listens and views but only a few sales. As Rhodri says, this may be that the tracks aren't great but I suspect his friend is right when she says "nobody pays for music anymore". With awful CD covermounts and other industry shots through the foot, we have devalued it.

** How can we structure companies which collect monies due, create and honour decent contracts, pay royalties, benefit from projects and inject real imagination yet spend far, far less in overheads than the dying, dinosaur majors?

** How can we protect and convert the rights of publishers, writers and composers?

Answers on a postcard please (I don't fancy Rick Rubin's subscription model. Most people are impulse buyers, not think-ahead types).

Amazing website; I logged on 5 hours ago to read this thread and have been reading and reading ever since.

Nothing wrong with the song, it's a summer track but the recording isn't that great and sounds a bit thin for this kind of song. Perhaps a remastering would help it. I like it actually and it has potential to be a hit.

Now the important part:

Old ways of thinking v New method of distributing.

The first fundamental difference and if you miss this then you might as well go home, between the old skool model and new skool model is the reason to buy.

In the old skool model to own the song and to play it on rotation when you wanted and especially at home after work when you are in 'dj mode' you needed the 7 inch. The format was romantic, sexy and portable enough without being ubiquitous.

In the new skool you have Youtube, myspace and even the band's website. Also if neither of them had it you have limewire before you venture off to Itunes to download. There is NO reason to download the single other than to make a point of supporting the artist.

The ONEexception to this is MOBILE PHONES. Has anyone heard of a service called www.63336.com which answers questions for people by sms ? The fact that people could find the answers themselves on Google, Yahoo answers etc has no impact on the sales figures for this company. Mobile SMS games have been around like forever yet our industry is only waking up to it.

Being a hit triples the amount of exposure it gets and as a result the sales will grow. If you analyse the amount of earballs listening to Umbrella and then make the correlation with the sales you will find without fail that we are looking at a ratio of 0.001% to 0.01% in other words to sell 250,000 downloads you need around 250,000,000 listens. You never get that on Youtube alone.

My latest research into this matter shows that before you even think about selling other than in drips and drabs you need to think in terms of getting millions to listen to the music first. Whether that is through Youtube or through any other Internet portal is one thing but eventually it has to begin to travel outside of the computer.

I would suggest a novel idea for those seeking to build a momentum for their songs.

Gift Marketing.
If your music is on your website then give it to people in your address book or perhaps on your myspace. Also run an advertising campaign. Print some flyers and go out to the streets and give it to people in your demographic and run a campaign.

Create a one-off record. Go to town with this, package it with a similar extravagant prize this could be:

An Ipod loaded with 100 hit songs.
A vintage bottle of wine.
A voucher for a day out racing in a porsche.
A hot air balloon ride.

Or a similar prize that somehow ties in with your music. The one off record should be on vinyl. I can put you in touch with someone who can manufacture it for you as a one off. Create a hand made sleeve, get the band to sign it and video it and put it on Youtube.

Create a target. If the track is streamed online, you can link it with your blog and say when we hit 1,000,000 streams someone should shout 'kowabunga' on the website and the first registered one on the site gets the prize pack. This or similar campaign will bring more attention to the music and eventually get more listens. Give the cards to kids in school (obviously no inappropriate prize) friends and family. Ripple release it from your inner circle.

All this does is inject a bit of fun around your record because downloads are so boring. Also having a direct link to get it onto a mobile phone is essential. Perhaps tie it in with an online game which still sells in millions.

Gee i could go on forever but hey all i am pointing out is that the use of music is very different now and as a result you are mad to just think in terms of old skool thinking. Music is no longer an end in itself to a lot of people but a soundtrack to people's lives that is why Rihanna's Umbrella was a smash in the UK when it was raining buckets but not anywhere else.

It wasn't as big a hit outside of the UK, in terms of time spent at number one, impact and relevance etc. Of course it was a smash and is a great song, just like Timbaland's new single but it had more of a meaning in the UK as a soundtrack to the deluge of rain.

Also i will repeat my mantra "monetise your promotion" it is no good putting it on Youtube without getting a kickback. Create a trailer and direct people to something on your site that will give you some pennies back hence the campaign.

It is all about ears and eyes and keep it in perspective If you want to sell 1000 downloads then make sure 1,000,000 people can hear your song. How you do that well it's a matter of CPM and you have a number of methods at your disposal.

Having a hit song just makes the process a lot faster but hey we can't always predict what that would be.

JK2006 wrote:

** How, other than by the traditional radio/TV/press ways, do we make people aware of new talent - EXPOSURE.
Facebook, MySpace, YouTube and genuine bloggers. The pretend word of mouth won't work.

Rhondi's stumbling block is the one song is all there is, it doesn't lead the user to anything else. For a new model record label the online give-aways would be there to promote something else - more songs from the same band and/or other artistes.

The cost of creating local hubs, in the real world, is dramatically cheaper than it has ever been. The centralised London monolith is now counter-productive. Smaller, faster, leaner and local is the new model for other business that is facilitated by online communication and distribution. Music business is no exception.

** How can we convert VIEWS and LISTENS to SALES? Many of my tracks have thousands of listens and views but only a few sales. As Rhodri says, this may be that the tracks aren't great but I suspect his friend is right when she says "nobody pays for music anymore". With awful CD covermounts and other industry shots through the foot, we have devalued it.

Until there is a song that really should be a hit the jury is out.

If CD sales are up or down depends which part of the previous cycle you compare it to. By picking different periods I can show sales are up and I can show sales are down. Music is cyclic, it depends on which bit of the previous cycle you choose to make your comparison.

One person's "devalue" is another person's "accessible".

** How can we structure companies which collect monies due, create and honour decent contracts, pay royalties, benefit from projects and inject real imagination yet spend far, far less in overheads than the dying, dinosaur majors?
By being closer to the customer.

That's capitalising on live appearance and giving customers an opportunity to interact and get involved, online is the current popular way to do this and will be so for some years to come, mobile phone's potential is growing.

The development of the Internet and the so-called Web 2.0 people want and expect a more personal and intimate relationship with bands, companies, record labels.

We have to create a feeling of ownership and belonging - for my generation punk did this, we felt it was "ours". The Internet can facilitate this.

** How can we protect and convert the rights of publishers, writers and composers?

In some areas such as downloads we have to get used to the idea that there is no way to restrict use and always gather royalties. We may not like it but that's the way it is.

For income from music we need to obsess less about people sharing (ie stealing ) music - Apple don't make their money from selling downloads but from selling iPods.

Answers on a postcard please (I don't fancy Rick Rubin's subscription model. Most people are impulse buyers, not think-ahead types).

Small payments easily made is far better than subscription/commitment.

The PayForIt system is the most recent version of small easy payments using mobile phones. The cost for the seller is lower than systems like PayPal and this low cost offers opportunity for sellers to profit

In general I hear too much whinging about the general public not doing what they are told to do. No business succeeds solely on what the business wants it is what the customer wants. We may not like how the customer now uses music but that doesn't stop them from doing it.

Provide the customer with what they want because they don't care about what your business wants. Don't try and dictate but follow. Customers now have the balance of power more than ever.

It's all about being in the right place at the right time me thinks

www.myspace.com/kamloopsmusic