I am a great fan of limewire where I can download free of charge virtually any song in the world.
I was actually wondering if the people who own the rights to these songs receive any royalties when they are downloaded from limewire.
If they do not then how come limewire is legal to use?

No they don't Lou and it is not legal.

And the painful irony is that individuals can be prosecuted for uploading music for distribution, but enterprises like Limewire slip through the net for the moment with slick legal footwork.

But there are legal (or I'd say "honest") ways to get music. I still subscribe to eMusic.com. Lots of indie music for $10 a month, which given the poor condition of the dollar is a joke for the moment. Latest download: Balkan Beatbox. 7digital.com is also very good.

Limewire IS legal. If you choose to transfer copyright material then you are breaking the law.

It exists unfortunately and deserves no publicity in my view.

Limey wrote:
Limewire IS legal. If you choose to transfer copyright material then you are breaking the law.
So the illegality is passed on to the punters. Neat.

Michael wrote:
Limey wrote:
Limewire IS legal. If you choose to transfer copyright material then you are breaking the law.
So the illegality is passed on to the punters. Neat.
If I bought a knife and stabbed someone should the manufacturer of the knife be liable for my actions?

zooloo wrote:
Michael wrote:
Limey wrote:
Limewire IS legal. If you choose to transfer copyright material then you are breaking the law.
So the illegality is passed on to the punters. Neat.
If I bought a knife and stabbed someone should the manufacturer of the knife be liable for my actions?
Interesting analogy, as the sale of firearms are actually highly controlled.

Hi, thanks for the replies to my original post.
I don't think you can actually blame the people who download from Limewire(why pay for something when you can get it free) You can however blame the creaters and the people who run it though. If I can go down the shop and get a loaf of bread for free then I'm not going to go to Sainsburys and pay for it am I?

and yet itunes continue to sell millions of downloads to people who are not intent on ripping off acts. But I guess there's always some nasty little cheap shot who wants to save 79 pence.

zooloo wrote:

If I bought a knife and stabbed someone should the manufacturer of the knife be liable for my actions?[/quote]

Whether I agree with your analogy, zooloo, depends upon what services Limewire provide, and despite a quick look on their website, I'm none the wiser.

Knife manufacturers do not intend their products to be used for criminal purposes. If Limewire's software can be used for other purposes totally legally, then the analogy is spot on, but if their sole raison d'etre is to provide illegal musical freebies, then the analogy is flawed.

I think the main thing that annoys me about Limewire, is akin to a heckuva lot of peoples view on music as opposed to supermarket shopping, the plumber, the gas and electric, Bill from the garage, the TV liscense, your sports club membership, DVD hire etc.....

Why are us as musicians and writers services seen as free in so many areas, of which Limewire really took the biscuit?

Had people not bought the first four Queen albums, there would be no Bohemian Rhapsody.
That simple.
Take your bread from Tesco daily, without paying, guess what happens on Monday?

Big End, you clearly do not live in the real world.
As for 'ripping off the real acts' as you put it quite frankly I could'nt give a toss, I work long hours in a factory to make ends meet so I'm hardly going to lose any sleep at night about doing some multi millionaire artist out of a few quid when I can get the songs I want for gratis.
But Big End you keep shelling out your hard earned money to make people who don't need the money rich while you struggle to make a living.:

Anthony wrote:

Whether I agree with your analogy, zooloo, depends upon what services Limewire provide, and despite a quick look on their website, I'm none the wiser.

Knife manufacturers do not intend their products to be used for criminal purposes. If Limewire's software can be used for other purposes totally legally, then the analogy is spot on, but if their sole raison d'etre is to provide illegal musical freebies, then the analogy is flawed.
The origin of bit-torrents, which Limewire uses, was for the Open Source Software community to distribute source code without the need for a central server which would have been prohibitively costly.

The original concept was for perfectly legitimate purposes.

Corporal Punishment wrote:
Big End, you clearly do not live in the real world.
As for 'ripping off the real acts' as you put it quite frankly I could'nt give a toss, I work long hours in a factory to make ends meet so I'm hardly going to lose any sleep at night about doing some multi millionaire artist out of a few quid when I can get the songs I want for gratis.
But Big End you keep shelling out your hard earned money to make people who don't need the money rich while you struggle to make a living.:
And the next time someone goes on strike in a factory because they're getting screwed, I can say "I don't give a toss. I work long hours with no possibility of dole and no holiday pay. I'm not going to lose any sleep over people that are paid for tea breaks."

I don't know many multi-millionaires in the music business, as it happens. I do know a lot of musicians that are seriously in debt.

Big End, you clearly do not live in the real world.
As for 'ripping off the real acts' as you put it quite frankly I could'nt give a toss, I work long hours in a factory to make ends meet so I'm hardly going to lose any sleep at night about doing some multi millionaire artist out of a few quid when I can get the songs I want for gratis.
But Big End you keep shelling out your hard earned money to make people who don't need the money rich while you struggle to make a living.:

For starters most musicians, artists etc. are not wealthy, probably worse off than yourself.

Now reverse the roll, a few thousand people decide they'll take a pound out of your wage packet every month. Not so nice now is it?

It's stealing CP and it's hurting the working classes, just like yourself.

Ah yes Cumon, but the music theives, themselves are not class divided, you can bet on that as well.

I would be lieing to say that I did not investigate Kazaar when it came out, I had no idea what the program was or why it existed, the best info that the public are given about Limewire and other file "sharing" programs is they are illegal, don`t use them.

Don`t forget, there will still be some people brand new to downloading who may not have this infomation and will start in the wrong areas for music gathering unless the continued bad mouthing continues.
The higher up a search engine they remain, the longer it will continue, we need to all force Limewire in particular, down the Napster route.

ah, bless your cotton socks C.P. you have to work for a living. What a shame. No really, my heart goes out to you from my world, which is splendid world, which is beautiful and perfectly shaped and everything comes together on a fluffy white cloud while the air smells so fragrant from wild flowers in full bloom.

Perhaps I may treat you to an itunes Christmas voucher to calm the troubled breast and ease the tormented soul.

Thank you Big End your generosity has almost moved me to tears. And you have cured me of all my inner demons.
Oh I forgot to tell you I won the lottery five years ago:P

Lou, the whole "why pay for something when I can get it for free" argument is rubbish.

It is ILLEGAL to download copyrighted music freely, in the same way as it is illegal to steal a car from a showroom.

Both are, arguably "victimless" crimes, as the artists are not immediately out of pocket, and the owners of the car dealership will be covered by insurance.

BUT, it is illegal to do either, and you wouldn't just go along and steal a car on the basis that "you could get it for free" would you?

The victim here is, ultimately, the artist. The people who worked hard to write, arrange, record and release their music, only for people to come along and steal their music, leaving them severely out of pocket, but justifying it to their own thieving selves by saying "oh, well, if I can get it for free, why should I pay for it?"

I work with several musicians, all of which are very talented and endlessly hard-working guys & girls, all of which have released excellent records in the last four years, and all of which are either broke to some extent or in debt. Being a creative musician is a thankless enough task as it is, without it being made all the harder by people coming along and nicking the music that they slave to create and release, just because "they can".

This whole thing makes me very angry indeed.