I don't think selling music is passe but the problem people are agonizing over is how to use FREE music to SELL music.

There is always a free disemination of music before the sales kick in. A fact of marketing is that you need to repeat your message about 7 times before you get a response. So the key is how does one ensure that their potential buying public get to hear their music 7 times before they form some sort of a bond with it.

As I mentioned in my myhotmusic article. It took me 6 or 7 listens of Hard-Fi's advert to take an action which was to go and listen to the whole album on Rhapsody. It is now in my to buy list for when I need to make it 'portable'. I have also mentioned the band to my kids as well.

The other problem whenever this sort of debate happens is the sheer number of really pointless posts, retorts, slanging matches etc that really devalues the debate thus ensuring it appears again and again.

There is indeed a huge problem with the music industry or one could call it an opportunity. This is about getting your music heard and listened to.

However there are those of us out there who are looking at this seriously and doing our research and testing new ideas and systems which puts CONTROL into the hands of those selling the music. Whether this is a band, manager or label is immaterial. If you control your marketing you can grow your business.

Advertising is where it is at and one should always look in terms of methods and costs.

Radio - Has a dual role of advertising and revenue.
It is both a means of promotion and a kind of licensing and one should look at getting consistent airplay (playlisting) virtually nonexistent unless you are a major with deep pockets to ensure market penetration, demand from the punters and radio stations feeling THEY are missing out if they don't play it.

Television - Same as above but even more tightly controlled as there are fewer slots available and only the most newsworthy acts are worth it for them.

Web - The biggest growth area in the last 5 years and indeed the only place where the cost of entry is scaleable. In other words, you can play on the same field as the majors albeit in a smaller territory.

Let's use TS as an example. I can post an tip on here linking back to my website and then check the stats to see who have viewed it, how many came from TS. EMI can also do the same. TS regulars see both articles and are only persuaded by the subject, content of the post to decide whether it is worth their while to visit the site to listen to the music. This is the same with all other sites. However some really large sites such as MSN, Yahoo etc have limited space to discuss music or for 'tips'. They then favour the majors for the same reasons as radio. But with Google and other advertising sites, I have an option of using advertising to get on MSN, Yahoo etc.

However, Youtube, Revver and other video sites have uniquely opened up another channel. Unlike ALL other new media sites, Youtube has a higher ratio of user generated content to major product plugs including 'stolen' major content. This site has stumbled upon how to balance independents with majors.

Youtube user generated content routinely appears on the front pages because of legalities of course. We all know that everyone goes to Youtube for major content from Major Labels, TV etc. But as a result will look at user generated content and then forward to friends etc thus spreading the word. Viral marketing at its best.

Back to music. It is necessary indeed essential to diseminate your releases for FREE to the punters. How you do that and how much of it that you 'give away' is open to debate. But one important point.

You need to give people your music for FREE but with a reason to BUY the music for a PURPOSE.

Example. I can listen to Hard-Fi on Myspace everyday if i want. But if i want to create a playlist of music, I need to download it. In order to do that quickly I go to Itunes (painless) to download it into a folder where I can transfer it to my mobile phone to listen on the move. DRM frustrates me from doing this so Itunes is out of the question. Tunetribe and others websites are so poorly designed and clunkly I might be hesitant to buy from them. Limewire is fast, efficient and oh free so I have a choice.

Now for my 2 pennys I think if there was a third way, ISP media subscription pack included with my internet access offering me unlimited or maybe limited MEDIA downloads with my Internet access which can be downloaded from a centralised server or even p2p as long as I log what i download, then the need to steal is GONE. I am already paying for it so might as well get it from EMI and not some dodgy website.

Am i the only person that can see this logic.

Considering that the Majors are not going to do this anytime soon, let's deal with the issue of why should i pay for the music when i can get it for free.

Let's look at the moral argument. I don't listen to radio, nor do i watch tv, I only listen to music on the web. Why should I buy a track to test if i like it ?

If i listened to radio, I would have been forced to hear it 7 times before I decide whether it is worth buying or not, in other words I would have formed an emotional bond with the song. I would either love it or hate it. I can't do this with 30 sec clips for the simple reason that no one puts a playlist of 30 sec clips together so unless it was forced on me I would not be able to listen to it.

So what are my options ?

Youtube ? Could this be a solution. Perhaps but video playlist will intrude my work, school and I can't carry it around on my IPOD. So that is out of the question for some people.

We7 ? Might be a solution. Oh I have to join yet another website but the music is free for me. Artist get paid and I have to suffer ads before the song. But at least I have what i need. It is mp3 and there is a reason to BUY for a PURPOSE. I want to get rid of the Ads. But hang on a second. If i play it for a month the ads disappear ?
It is also screened (to a certain degree) and major product is there.

We7 is almost there but I think they need to do a 2 for one deal. Download one major product get a pre-release for free. I listen to my favourite acts and get a free download from a newcomer as well. I put both on my IPOD and bond with the 2. Neat !

If we look at this with a clear head we may be able to discover a new marketing system for indies and new releases.

Two for one. Buy them a Sugababes track, give them yours for FREE. But like We7 advertise your website and give them a reason to buy something.

ps: if you liked this post. Check out some more from my website www.myhotmusic.com and listen to music i love as well. And oh yes it helps put fuel in my lamp.

Well thought out except...

It's the filtering that is missing. We listen to some radio and watch some TV because someone else filters out the crap and gives us something good.

I remembering bumping into the 2 BBC bosses when No Limits was No1 on BBC2 with about 6 million viewers a week and they (Grade and Cotton) asked me WHY the show was so popular. I replied it was because the music was great. "But how do you know?", they asked "It sounds just the same as everything else to us".

"That's why I'm in music and you're in television", I replied.

I was asked the same ten years later when I organised a Eurovision win for the UK.

Creating and providing a station or site or show or whatever that attracts listeners or viewers because it is great is the huge missing link.

THEN people will buy the music they like. Everything else (subscriptions included) misses this point.

I don't want to subscribe to anything (I even have Freeview instead of Sky because I loathe subscriptions).

Give me free FILTERED quality please (lack of filter destroyed the impact of My Space and is doing the same for You Tube).

I have a considered reply to this, but it all comes down to a question really that I cannot answer but which I do feel needs throwing in to the forum as a degree of urgency.

The question is internet yes but what about TV?

Taking our usual regional radio broadcast routes for a December campaign we have pressed up ltd "special editions" of the product for distribution purposes to the radio stations for giveaways and generally as a reminder to play the track.
This is a considerable expense which I would like to have avoided, but even though we have good web support and a suitably obscure viral campaign in place, I still feel there is a void in an emerging new model on how to get a track noticed.
Although we still expect a time in which we will be download only anyway , which I welcome as we can release more, we will, if we have not already , got to a release overload situation and as our clients are not expected to be solely web-based, there is still a gap in our promotion and I find the key to the door on this frustratingly does not quite fit yet.

Where are our customers that our not on the web that much and miss the radio support?

Quite simply, watching telly.

They are out there and largely untapped I feel and our probably our saviours.(again)

The only answer I can come up with is, television advertising, not new, not cheap at all, or even affordable without a consortium of investors supporting the indie, but I really believe it is a luxury of the dinosaurs. The chart positions are irrelevent currently, I think we all agree with that, in fact many of us have or will achieve them shortly.

I believe, the final major upheaval will be caused by the indie retailer bypassing corporate red tape and being granted "special services" for TV advertising or additional support on a points ratio to be eligible for granted air time and I don`t mean help from the excellent Electric Proms etc, I mean mainstream support, i e , Ant and Dec.

The consumer deserves this choice and clever and well trained people in TV broadcasting deserve to be given the chance to be part of a new future and not force fed by major label produce like the rest of the consumers.

I understand your points JK but the real question is who is doing the filtering and whether or not that person is able to do the filtering without prejudice.
Herein lies the problem with radio. They do not pick music based on quality but on demographics and I don't blame them for that.

The issue of subscription is for the sake of piracy and well you are 'subscribing'to get on the net so in a way you are already signed up.

Mart problem with TV advertising is how will you make it work unless you JV with a huge company or to get the advertising boys to synch the music. The expense of it will be huge and how will you recoup without an album ?

Radio advertising might be better for you. The thing is to tally up the radio play you are getting and to attack it market by market. With the system that Koopa and others are using to get into the charts (pre-ordering) it might work for you.

By the way I don't think the charts are irrelevant. We still see the middly piddlies posted on here each week and i bet everyone checks them out. Of course without charts we have an even worse situation where there is NO filtering, nothing to work towards and no measure of success. It needs an overhaul imho.

Just remember 7 to 1.

Seven listens for one man to react.

In a way a website like this is great because the people on here are on here everyday. Perhaps several times a day.

Facebook and Myspace are indeed the answer as far as the web is concerned but then again same problem how do you get them to listen.

By the way I have a great idea for a solution which I
think will work fantastically but will reveal it in due course.

Sorry for a long post.

Some very good points and interesting comments.

I notice other boards seem less interested in such topics.

Lower level contributions?

You hit that cross from the left wing with perfect timing for me to head away with precision Manny.

So many people, in all employment, this industry included of course, do not actually realise that technically doing ones job does not end when work ends at whatever hour and there is also no guarantee that it will be there tommorrow.
Does this ethic come only from the self employed or "indies" in the debate in progress?

It most certainly should not, people who do not care about the music that employs them should celebrate life as a consumer and fund their enjoyment, as opposed to obsession of such,in other means.

Chart places have become less relevant partly due to the lack of any connected TV show such as TOTP, 65 Special, Ready Steady Go, Oh Boy, 45, Supersonic, Lift Off. There used to be so many TV shows which you might appear on if you had a chart placing. I don't think the 24 hour music channels provide the same kind of service to either artist or viewer. There are some acts which would only get TV coverage if they had a chart placing.

I'm not sure that TV filters out the crap to bring us the good stuff. Most of the schedule suggests the opposite, which is why I watch very little TV these days. And radio went downhill once the stations adopted strict playlists. Filtering isn't something I support, because it limits choice. Who's to say that what the filterer thinks is rubbish will not be popular with others? I've known a few awfully bad Number One songs over the years which I'd have gladly filtered out but which were obviously popular.

I agree with JK about subscription if all you want to do is listen. In such cases subscription limits the audience. I clicked on one site to listen to a band only to be told I cannot even hear a preview unless I sign up. Thus, I still haven't heard that band. Plenty of other non-sub sites to choose from.

On the free music point. I chose not to make my Myspace songs downloadable, but I came across a website which allows you to download any music off Myspace for free. It's an extremely easy one click process, and I now know there's nothing I can do to prevent people getting freebies of my songs off Myspace, short of deleting them. That's one downside of digital music, although I guess it's similar to the way people used to tape off the radio.

Thankfully some people are still paying for my music, and the market is big enough to allow for the leaking of free copies - so there's no actual panic yet. And maybe those free copies will help raise awareness of and interest in the choice of music that is available.

Hmm .. I've also gone on longer than I intended.

I'm beginning to look at these questions from another angle: indie movies. And I feel local television can provide a key new element as they have more room and are always looking for good local angles. But the idea is to involve them earlier than the release. Coincidentally, YouTube also plays a role as it is in effect a way to distribute an EPK. So you have the micro and macro angle that can be covered.

However, it is also worth putting just as much energy into building a suitable "story" behind the release. And that's not necessarily easy, particularly in music as there is simply too much so-so music out there. We are all guilty of putting out another single, knowing it's not bad but not exactly "London Calling" or "Billie Jean" (or whatever). This is also part of the filtering JK mentions. But just look at the batting average of the tips here or on ROTD and we can easily see just how few truly standout tracks are being released. And these are tips from ppl that know a thing or two about music and public taste.

What's more, having a good "story" facilitates bringing advertisers on board, as every brand wants to be part of a buzz and movies offer opportunities for premieres, screen-savers, meet-and-greets and subsequently DVDs and downloads. The trouble is that they cost

Firstly, personally,I like the "creating a good story" angle a lot when pushing any product and use it regularly on any new music as a pitch, most of the ideas are actually off the wall enough to render the story fairly true anyway, and as has been pointed out, we are actually using the Koopa angle here with the press stories actually thrown in, thats the easier bit.
Making it "bigger" and less homegrown in execution is the hard bit.

I still firmly believe in regional promotion and am not keen on the standard release date ideas that are hardly executable on breakthrough acts anyway.
That said, there is nothing wrong with a "relaunch" although I would prefer to use the term "extra helping hand" on a rainy day.

Secondly, with a broader hindsight,the Kenny Rogers incident (lyrically of course there have been many), showed that with all the jobs doing this , that "x" and of course "y", in major music industry, although back catalogues are the building block of the industry, they are sadly not loved by a department and thats a shame.
How many great records/potential hits and their masters lay untouched after the people behind them moved on for a higher wage or maybe these days none at all?
How much could the UK/Worldwide rights of the next "old" hit be bought for by the right person, who really would have the same ears and foresight as the hunter of new music?