Walker played Dusty's version of So Much Love the other morning and it dawned on me that her great vocal skill was singing 95% of the time - under stated but with beautiful gentle tone - and not the 5% dramatic moments copied by all the imitators and wannabes.

That's what I miss in today's singers - the ability to hold your attention and emotion during the majority of melodic and lyrical moments when nothing seems to be going on.

Like media headlines - the current breed only seem able to copy or shout the caricature versions.

Most singers these days miss the point altogether. Singing has never been a shouting match, and if I hear one more person laud a singer because they've got a "powerful" voice, I'll pull my hair out. Subtlety and dynamics are sorely missing these days - Dusty was great at that, as was Marvin Gaye after '70 and Al Green.

...and Cat Stevens.

I was lucky enough to have Cat or Steve (as I knew him) come around to this very house and play me his new songs live, on guitar, before anyone else heard them and I can confirm they were pure magic.

He's still one of my very favourite singers.

Incidentally, Dusty sang live and private to me here too.

I'm a very lucky boy.

There was no-one quite like Dusty and no other girl singer of her era - as good as some of them were - could touch her with a bargepole.

A very skilled vocalist and from what I have read, she also knew exactly what she wanted in the studio. Unfortunately this got her unfairly labelled as "difficult" and she once pointed this out after reading how Scott Walker was equally demanding in the studio yet nobody was criticising Scott for having the same standards. Interesting too that Scott and Dusty shared the same producer in the 60s - Johnny Franz... and don't those records still sound magnificent today?

Dusty got the balance between dramatics, emotion and pure great singing spot on.

Sadly over the last 20 years, most female singers who are lauded as being something wonderful are not because they over emote... yes, Whitney, Mariah and Celine, we know you have the technical skills to be magnificent singers but why does almost everything you sing have to pin me up against the wall?

Listen to Harry Nilsson singing "Without You" and then play Mariahs'. No contest - Mariah uses the song to swoop over all the place as if to say "hey, listen to what I can do with my voice over a truly generic and bland backing track" whilst Nilsson simply gets on with it with a moving and affectionate performance.

I am absolutely fed up of being shouted at by many singers these days.

I agree heartily Elliot, vocal acrobatics do not move me at all.
Heartfelt genuine feeling rarely spans four octaves.

Mart wrote:
I agree heartily Elliot, vocal acrobatics do not move me at all.
Heartfelt genuine feeling rarely spans four octaves.
+2

Also totally in agreement that all the business accompanying the bellowing is unnecessary and pretty crap.

...and that Dusty was the gold standard example of how to do it right!

Geez listen to you all lol !

Well I could hazard a guess that most of you are the other side of 40 years old ? Hence you grew up with certain singers who touched you genuinely and that will stay with you till you die.

However, I don't necessarily disagree with your comments about what singing is all about, but there is a case for the gymnastics, the power vocal and all the technique because when it is done properly and done effectively it moves you very much. I guess in 20 years time when we have this conversation again perhaps it will be along the lines of

"aren't singers so bland, just singing gently, no real talent of technique or tricks unlike Whitney, Mariah...."

Let singers alone. Let them find their own style without the pop idol, x-factor conditioning that is going on today.

By the way JK what happened to my post about Duffy ? It appears have disappeared.

The genius is in the details isn't it JK? She is one of the greatest ever. I always make sure my young singers listen to her.

The yelling... the shouting on pitch in todays music...kids think American/Pop Idol is the way one sings, and for many its their only exposure to music.

You couldn't imagine how often a mother will come up to me with a national anthem queen, and think she's got the next Celine Dion, ..........and probably has never heard of Dusty.

No sign of a Duffy post KZ, at least in the Duffy thread. Can you send it again?

You may have sent it to that other board by mistake and it might have gotten lost in the ether.

DJKZ wrote:
Geez listen to you all lol !

Well I could hazard a guess that most of you are the other side of 40 years old ? Hence you grew up with certain singers who touched you genuinely and that will stay with you till you die.

However, I don't necessarily disagree with your comments about what singing is all about, but there is a case for the gymnastics, the power vocal and all the technique because when it is done properly and done effectively it moves you very much. I guess in 20 years time when we have this conversation again perhaps it will be along the lines of

"aren't singers so bland, just singing gently, no real talent of technique or tricks unlike Whitney, Mariah...."

Let singers alone. Let them find their own style without the pop idol, x-factor conditioning that is going on today.

By the way JK what happened to my post about Duffy ? It appears have disappeared.
Not so.

The singer touched me was Alison Moyet covering That Old Devil Called Love.

I may in later years claim Whitney, Mariah et al as fine examples of the craft in the same way I may succumb to dementia - although the former would require the latter.

I'm the right side of 40, actually! It's not an age thing...you can't deny that Dusty Springfield had a lot of emotion in her voice, though you can't beat Donny Hathaway for that...genuinely a voice that makes me cry every time I hear him sing.

Can't miss out Scott Walker either - what a gorgegous rich tone.

It's all about tone...too many shite singers use the vocal acrobatics to hide the fact that they haven't got any and also that they can't hold a note.

Mariah...not a fan at all but Whitney had a beautiful voice. It's all a bit shot to pieces these days.

Radio 4 thing on 60s girl groups - should be available on listen again by now

Don't get me wrong Zooloo, I am not necessarily a huge fan of Whitney's style of singing. I mean't that when the young ones grow older they will be bemoaning the days of 5 octave singers.

I blame Christina Aguilera and Celine Dion. Once they started warbling all over the place it became about technique and not about passion. I have heard some great Gospel singers who had great dynamics. It wasn't just about technique.

Now the yardstick to measure singers is by how many notes they can cram into a syllable or belt like crazy.
It is sad actually.

Now you see, funnily enough I love Celine Dion (for me she and R Kelly were the two outstanding talents of the 90's) and I adore Whitney at her best but I cannot stand Mariah or Christina.

Leave aside the personal preferences though - the overall point remains - it's how they handle the mundane and ordinary that really matters.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of drama and hysteria (love my friend Bassey to bits and Judy too) but check out their soft, gentle, everyday vocals to find true greatness.

I think the technical expression is overuse of melisma, i.e. singing 300 notes when four would have done - an exhibition of technique rather than emotion. And sadly, thanks to the Cowell/Idol template, this now seems to have become the lingua franca of contemporary pop.

One random but useful comparison point - on Sunday's Pick Of The Pops Dale played Aretha's exquisite "Until You Come Back To Me (That's What I'm Gonna Do)" and even though she's singing about knocking on his doo and tapping on his windowpane until he gets up and notices, she never becomes hysterical; the emotion is always controlled and her slow-motion glide is sublime.

If Mariah sang that now it would be all "AAAARRRRRGGHHH KNOCK ON YOWOWOWOWOO DOWOWOWOWOOR" for five minutes before she even got to the next line.