Whenever the market goes slack, pretty girls get promoted like they are the saviours.
Because it's such fun for the heteros, the designers, those keen on fashion and image and makeup and videos (i.e. not bothered by the music).

So we watch the Duffys and the Estelles join the Corinnes and the Adeles and the Amys and the Leonas and the Alicias and the Britneys...

And none of them sell any fucking records.

Oh they get a couple of huge hits (buy the songs) to launch - then disappear whilst the albums (which LOOK beautiful) languish on the shelves (shelves? albums?) for years, gathering dust.

And the world moves on. The girls become housewives, marrying, having kids...

And the old male dinosaurs keep shifting millions (Eagles, Beatles, Elton, Rod, Elvis, Frank...)

Music is essentially a male world despite some artistes (Aretha) being as good as if not better - but just check those back catalogue sales and compare.

Uncomfortable but true.

um, Madonna? Abba (OK, that's only 50% female but Bjorn and Benny couldn't have performed these songs on their own and had the same success)?

An interesting theory, I don`t completely agree but it has substance.
I can`t count the times a "new" female vocalist jumps on to the scene at roots and unsigned level and a natural fairly unhyped buzz has been created as people seem to say "this could be the one".

Yet another one? I ask.

Yes music does appear to be predominantly a male world in business, but how notable it is that a long standing male act does not appear to be being sought for.
I don`t believe for a minute that they are not still out there, but it would appear that a female fronted act has much more chance of being viewed/seen.
Is this because they would appear to accept moulding more?
If so, then it is blatant sexism.
There may well be another band out there with the technical abilities and staying power of the Eagles, but we tend to not seek out the nice guys in jeans, we actually ignore them and expect a finished product dropped in our lap when it`s a male act.
The female musician, it would appear, is fair game to mould.
MC mentioned Madonna and whilst Leona has proved a pleasant surprise, and I think "Bleedin Love" is an all time classic, sometimes I do think that music is being created , using females who don`t back the project anymore than the male (probably) producers of it.
I fully support the A+R guys currently and their, what must be a hopeless quest of, "will my boss like this?" but once again I feel a little more imagination is required from all parties.

Provocative post JK

I know what you mean - we are seeing music sold like cars were sold in the 70s.....draped with knicker wearing teenage girls just out of school because of their lack of talent.

But there are many superb female artists out there - and I would include LEONA in that list.....I also like the energy of the TING TINGS......and in the past we have had the PRETENDERS - SIOUXIE and the MOTOWN bands.

Therefore I think you have made a good point but it is not wholly true !

I don't agree with this at all JK and it is slightly sexist, though I am sure you don't mean it to be. It is NOT just the male dinosaurs that sell millions, (see my list below). Also look at Madonna. The amount of flack many people are giving her, saying that she is too old and she should retire is completely nonsensical.

Not only that, check out the boards, particularly the US ones and read the amount of sexist nonsense the female singers have to put up with. If a female sings pop, she either is f*cking the producers/writers/a&r/MD/everyone connected with the record or she is a bimbo, whore blah blah. This is offensive beyond belief. I read, Leona has been told she is not sexy enough and needs Mariah's personal trainer in order to crack America.

Britney Spears has sold over 31 million albums but yet you say she doesn't sell any f*cking records ! wtf JK. lol How many records does she need to sell ?

Look at the top selling albums of all time and you will find a very healthy number of female fronted acts and singers:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide

also look at:
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080302211440AAm4IL6

Another list with a lot of female singers.

Male fronted acts may sell more than female fronted acts but that has nothing to do with how or why they are created but perhaps a lot more to do with the fact that perhaps many female fans who lust after the said male acts go out and buy everything they produce for reasons other than music.

Sorry, JK but your argument has a lot of holes in it. It is just like saying that white singers sell more than black singers because of (insert whatever reason you like).

The music industry and not music is a male dominated industry. The music industry at the top level is run by the "old boys network" who give jobs to each other because they are in the network. It is white, old, tired and downright prejudiced. It is these same people who dictate what should be signed or what should be packaged and sold. It is these same people who extoll old ageing rockers. How many times are we going to hear the Beatles are the best band/writers/icons of the pop era. No they are not. But for those of you who think they are, and have the keys to the gate then you will dictate that we worship at the altar of these people.

These same people failed to recognise Madonna for what she really is a pop icon.

This is the one reason why in a way I have zero sympathy for the current music industry and may it crumble quickly so that new, fresh and younger people with vision can take up the mantle and present something new and something different.

I am all for diversity and a huge fan of female singers. I am sick and tired of the narrow mindedness that dominates the music industry thinking and that includes in our definition of a good song. We are so steeped in the formula of the past and this is at the heart of the decline of music. How many hits can you derive from past hits ? How much more 3.30 formulaic pop songs can we put up with ?

By the way JK, you have forgotten about Sade, over 50 million album sales.

There you go BR, we are seeing music "Sold".
Hmm, maybe not, we are seeing music available to be sold.
I reckon for every MP3 sold, at least ten are distributed free amongst friends.
These are not poor cassette recordings from the radio, these are as high quality as a punter expects these days of a song they actually did not care about enough to purchase.
Investing people need to seriously make a whole product look, feel and sound worthy.
Old news, I know.

Ah but KZ - does Sade sell any back catalogue today? I doubt it.

Will Madonna be selling in 20 years time? I doubt it.

But Presley will. The Beatles will. The Stones will. Sinatra will. Sam Cooke will.

There are always exceptions that prove the rule but I doubt whether women from the 60s - however great (like Dusty or Gladys Knight) - sell back catalogue like second division acts like The Kinks or The Who or The Animals.

I am also getting tired of the "lack of talent" label that is being given mostly to female singers. Most of the so called greats are poor singers. Dylan, Jagger and the rest of the ageing dinosaurs, who haven't grown old gracefully. Most of whom are chasing girls younger than their own grandchildren. Whatever floats your boat but stop attacking female singers. It takes a lot to record a tune, a lot to sing and be a presenter, personality or whatever popettes are supposed to be.

There are singers who use sex to sell their message and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. But that doesn't make them any less than those who use sex to sell their message in a different way such as screaming girls, groupies, pornstars on album covers, sex with female celebrities etc. Give the girls a break I say.

I`m not implying a lack of talent label to female singers,(personally) what I am implying is that they get viewed more at a start off level because they are female.

Exactly Mart - and the strange fact that even massive talent (like Aretha or Dusty) does not seem to translate into back catalogue sales.

I think Tina Turner is and was a megatalent but I bet you Billy Fury (equally good in his way) has sold many more albums this year than Tina has - due to TV advertising of course, but true none the less.

Does Sade sell back catalogue ? Yes she does. But then again the point is you are not comparing like with like. Sade is from the 80s and Elvis is dead. So Sade sells more new albums and of course Elvis cannot.

Nana Mouskouri is still selling. Diana Ross is still selling. The Supremes sell back catalogue and Gladys, Aretha, even Lulu are.

The only way to really answer the question is to provide statistics and prove it with facts. It's all too easy to use assumptions as the basis of the argument.

Then again, sexism is alive and well in the music industry. The media, the gatekeepers are all institutionally sexist and as far as the 60s and the 70s are concerned there's even more sexism there.

We are in a time of change, since the 80s and since Madonna for that matter, female singers are now having a real chance of competing with their male counterparts.

Mariah Carey has now had more number ones than Elvis but will she get the credit for it ? Not half. Many will try and diminish her achievements. It is only recently that female singers are given the respect they deserve and to use back catalogue as the yardstick is unfair. Yes the singers from the 60s were treated poorly and not given respect but this is due to the "Old boys club" patting each other on the back and extolling the virtues of their charges. These guys keep putting The Beatles, Elvis and any other male act from over 30 years ago over anything newer and that means females will never be given their due until these fogies die. Thankfully we are reaching the end of this era.

It's not about talent or sexism - I simply believe people prefer to market females yet the public seem to prefer males in the long run.

Why?

I have no idea but relatively limited artistes like Cliff or Shakin Stevens or Depeche Mode still sell millions of old hits whilst Transvision Vamp and Toyah and Siouxsie sell nothing.

Dolly Parton seems to still be raking it in.

Maybe Country music is an exeption to the rule.

Ah Dolly is a true exception but it's down to her abilities like song writing and business sense I suspect. Madonna a bit the same.

My point is not a water tight rule. It's a general observation.

Several exceptions but...

the industry tends to like marketing females

and


the public seems to prefer music by males in the long run.

No, JC is right about country music being the exception to the rule.
As Rosanne Cash said, "you can`t make a decent counrty music record until you`ve been through all the divorce thing".
Country music is ageless and nearly imageless at times.(although I agree Dolly is not)

However, is it not amusing , that Madonna gave it a very sneaky nod, image wise, to achieve one of her greatest sellers?

Madonna still sells back catalogue. She's in the album charts with her compilation as is Mariah Carey with her greatest hits and Celine Dion. The best way to measure this is to measure cumulative sales and then you will find not a huge difference between them.

Also if you measure it in terms of percentages of acts you will find that there are a vast majority of male acts who have recorded albums v their female counterparts so statistically speaking of course there will be more males selling back catalogue than female but if you look at the percentages you will be surprised to find out that females sell more.

Most of the greatest female singers are still recording and still releasing records and it is unfair to compare them with heritage acts.

Once again have a look at the best selling albums and then work out the percentages of female acts v male acts and then analyse the results and you will be surprised to find out that female artists sell more.

Do you mean Music? IIRC it wasn't that big a seller; it did OK but nowhere near Like A Prayer level.

JK wrote:
I have no idea but relatively limited artistes like Cliff or Shakin Stevens or Depeche Mode still sell millions of old hits whilst Transvision Vamp and Toyah and Siouxsie sell nothing.

Cliff et al. had more / bigger hits than the girls to begin with, so it is (from my point of view) no wonder that they are still bigger stars today.

Sade can still put asses in seats......lots of them. She sold out an arena tour of the States not that long ago, relatively. She is an exception. Sade has a fan base that loves her, twenty five years after the fact.

I think she and Robin could make one hell of an album, right now, and sell it to that rabid base. I'd love to see it happen.

But I do get your overall point JK. Its the dumbing down of the music industry for sure, and back catalogue, or the promise of it is completely lost when looking at new talent by any label that still exists. How many beat programmed throw-away #1's are going to catalogue? Really???

The talent is out there for sure. Lets go find it, and more importantly have the balls to back it!

Dumbing down of the industry maybe GG, but I fear more likely overcrowding of it at the roots, by things that sound listenable,purely because they sound high quality at first.
I feel sure you have been recording people as long as me and many of the demos we used to receive , which sounded awful but promising , are not being listened to anymore for development. Stick a female in front of a Garageband demo and it gets extra listening time, just in case it`s a new Aretha.