I hear the majors are planning a 50% cull of staff this festive season.

Not just the majors. Would be suprised to see any Indie labels left after Christmas.

Sales plummetted in September to a level never seen before in history.

Many Music Publications have not paid their staff and are praying for some advertising for the Christmas period just to keep them going.

I would say 50% of the Music Industry will be laid off this Christmas. Most of whom will find that there are no jobs out there.

New Labour's idea of a job is a MCJOB.

If you want to flip burgers or work in a supermarket - these jobs are the only jobs recruiting - at min wage.

The UK is finished.

I said many years ago on this very forum that if the MAJOR LABELS did not adopt a different model then they would go the way of the Dinasaurs. They never listened - they tried to control the market thinking they would have lashings of money.

We now are moving into the HERITAGE business. Labels will exploit old catalogue which is still selling a bit - but has no overheads. I can see major labels reduced to a just a equivalent of a warehouse style operation with a couple of suits who do the deals for back catalogue to be used in films etc.

Our once great UK INDUSTRY is dead. It is over.

Strangely its decline conincided with yourself being "taken out" by the New Labour Justice Machine. Now that is probably a co-incidence ? But do you think you could have "saved" the music industry from this if you had been left alone ?

Hard times coming - good luck everyone out there in the Industry who has lost their job or is about to lose their job. The good people are being swept away with the "suits and hangers on" - maybe more at risk because creativity is being killed by the Major Labels.

Taking time for family and friends is actually positive - forget the money. It can actually be a good thing to make time for yourself as well. The "bubble" of the last 30 years has been fake and has been at the expense of being happy.

Lets allow our Government to pick up the tab for us as well as the bankers. Claim every benefit going and put your feet up. This is the Modern UK where the Government prints funny money so we dont have to work anymore.

I can see major labels reduced to a just a equivalent of a warehouse style operation with a couple of suits who do the deals for back catalogue to be used in films etc.

Yes. That is the future. The majors will have to reinvent themselves just like the music publishers did when sheet music was displaced by records.

Can we have a ban on BR and his negative anti labour views. I am fed up with BR taking over this board. Pipe down man and don't post so often. Haven't you got a job ?

The music industry is evolving, get over it. That's progress.

So you approve of what Labour has done to this country? Yes, they're only carrying on what the Tories have started but, by God, they are more right wing than the Tories. Open your eyes.

The music industry is not evolving if nobody has a clue how it's going to pan out. It is getting harder to earn a basic living doing music. Nobody wants to pay for services. That's the reality of it. It's pretty much dead at the moment, unless you're Simon Cowell (or a niche artist, who are still doing quite well).

Yes, BR comes out with some posts which I roll my eyes at, but if you can't see the damage that New Labour have done, God help you.

Funny you should say that R&B.

I own a small indie label - and the last two years because of New Labour policies - first their refusal to listen to everyone saying a recession was coming and to cut interest rates - and then for them to bail out the banks rather than ordinary small businesses ( which would have led to a recovery by now ) were two fundamental errors.

The record industry in the UK has been killed in the last 5 years.

The idea that it is evolving is rubbish frankly. The major labels are important for music and did employ many many thousands of people. To say that it is a good thing that these people are losing their job is quite frankly not a good view.

The evolving of the industry makes it more difficult for new acts to break through. I talk to several a week who are looking to release stuff - but unless someone hands over a big bunch of money to me I cant release anything at the moment and since February 2008 have worked only on back catalogue and a few very small releases.

My last chart position was in March 2008 - and in the years 2001 to 2008 we always had at least one release trouble the charts.

I have every right to be negative about this issue and post on it.

In fact on the Tipsheet Forum I rarely post these days because I am aware that I have a negative view - and that I dont want to further depress other people about things.

What I would say is this : the putting your head in the sand approach that you are advocating will never get us a music industry that is worth anything. In life you have to recognise what is going on and then fight for survival and be creative.

To think that you can sit by and watch things evolve is the "Nanny State" brainwashing that has happened to you. I suggest you sit in your room and let a song evolve out of nothing - it just aint gonna happen.

Hard work and getting rid of New Labour is the only way we can get the Music Industry back on its feet and into rude health.

Thank you for this BR - "Strangely its decline conincided with yourself being "taken out" by the New Labour Justice Machine. Now that is probably a co-incidence ? But do you think you could have "saved" the music industry from this if you had been left alone ?"

Yes, I strongly believe that, by taking me out weeks before I was about to accept the offer of the gig as Chairman of EMI worldwide, the music industry suffered a terminal loss.

But, as Doris once sang - Que Sera Sera.

I am not in support of the labour party or the tories for that matter. I am just fed up with the amount of ranting by BR. He seems to be taking over the board. Go and have a look at the amount of posts he has on "your views" all in the space of a few days. I would take him a lot seriously if he wasn't on a "conspiracy theory" addiction. Of course I am concerned about the industry but man BR/Rocker or whatever alias he decides to use, slow down.

Have you read any American music industry blogs or Australian or indeed blogs from any other country ?

You will find that the majors are the architects of their own misfortune and not the Labour govt. Why should the state bail out the music industry ?

The UK's stimulus package was handled badly compared with the Australian govt's package which was given to individuals and families to go and spend and the result was that they heeded off a recession over there.

There are new music entrepreneurs who are emerging, who understand that to make money you need to play the long game, consolidate, keep everything in house, make videos, make musicals and films (JK is a example of this).

The system that is dying was always hostile to independents and as good as it was for you to have a record that charted every year since 2001-2008, you would have had a lot more if the industry as a whole was not slanted towards the majors. Independents watch money carefully, release music they love and generally have a better profit ratio than the majors who make more money based on scale but have a 95% failure rate in terms of not recouping.

The costs involved in promoting a record went to ridiculous proportions, it was unsustainable and they only got away with it because people had no choice. Now they have a big choice and that is to either buy, download illegally, or indeed stream the damn thing from Youtube. Only a compelling release would motivate people to buy an album.

This is the fault of the record industry and not the Labour Party. I am not defending them by the way just pointing out that it is easy to blame other people for your problems (this is what the BNP are doing) but it is hard to take responsibility for your own music.

Get out there and build relationships with your fans. The game has changed considerably and all of you whinging and blaming the govt instead of cutting your coat according to your size will be left behind.

Those of us who realise that instead of moaning about file sharing or the radio or the government are adapting their business model to take advantage of the new opportunities. This is indeed a positive attitude.

I gather BR that you have some sort of faith or spiritual outlook (based on some of your rants) but you are doing yourself a disservice by doing the 'devil's' work by being negative 99% of the time.

How many people will commit suicide after reading about all your conspiracy theories and negative posts. Limit it man for God's sake. That's all I am asking.

Look at JK. Banned from the radio, he didn't sit down crying over spilt milk but began to explore other opportunities and made his first musical which I believe has resulted in more sales, not to mention all the Youtube videos which also boosted sales.

This is the way forward. If people want to download music for free then make them download it from your own site. Or how about release your music in a non-downloadable format FIRST. Maybe make a movie, a TV show, a stage musical, anything other than following the majors into the abyss.

As an independent myself and one who has always been cynical about the way the media fawn after the majors despite the independents always leading the way with new music and innovation, I embrace this new internet based economy, I know how to make it work and it is simple but hard, not expensive but the key is to keep everything in-house and now is the time to retrain or bring on board a resident producer, writer, filmmaker and keep everything inhouse. Vive L'independence !

That is where I agree with you R&B - yes being positive and getting out there is the right way. No one should be suicidal about this - and there is always a way. You are totally right.

The money supply ( what people can spend ) has been cut massively by this Government. That means even if you set up a label now or already have one - in the UK there wont be as many sales as there were 2 years ago. That is the effect of those policies.

The Majors never listened to the warnings - and like a large boat they take longer to turn around in a crisis so are more exposed. I dont blame them for their own demise - but I agree they could have done more to diversify and embrace new models rather than clinging onto the old.

The whole music industry is about 90% major label by the way - and if the major labels suffer then everyone suffers.

2009 has seen the most single tracks ever sold in the UK - 170 million But at the expense of albums which are the real earners for artists and labels. Single tracks dont make much money for an artist. I suppose it spreads the money around - but in reality it has killed the album market which was the earner for the music industry.

I believe that bands should create fans and then go to a subscription model based on 12 month contracts. This would allow them to release 24 songs a year at say a £3 a month subcription - also included would be a concert ticket and fan club stuff. For £36 the fan would feel part of the band.

This would cut out distribution through a third party and would be easy to do for up to 10,000 fans. This would provide a £30k income a month. Easily enough for touring and recording and living for a band of 4 and a team of 2 full time people to organise.

PS the MAMA model is 360 and the Arctic Monkeys are even building a studio in the MAMA building in Worship Street !! Keeping things "in house" saves money these days and is the way to go

Just to inject something a little less abrasive into the debate, I just read that Orange currently invest more euros in French cinema than the TV channel TF1 (which has a contractual obligation to do so).

Relevance? Movies are going through a very painful financing crisis, like music. Interesting that a telecom company should be playing such an important role.

Meanwhile, the best news I've heard recently is that Facebook will soon allow ppl to offer music - either as an MP3 or as a stream.

Time to dream up some interesting ways to "encourage" people to do this with our tracks!

I give credit where credit is due and this is just about the best post ever that you have written BR. More on the music and less on the politics which only depresses me and puts me off your posts but I think you hit the nail on the head and subscription is the way to go although it may be more appealing to fans to subscribe at 0.99p a month rather than 36 quid a year. But I guess this is the way to go although I wonder how many people will actually subscribe to a single band for 3 quid a month. But fantastic post BR.

I might subscribe to a band, but only after they've already produced a number of songs that I like. Monthly is better than yearly, otherwise they might come up with one good song followed by a load of dross and I'd feel robbed. We all need to hear a song before we invest in it. Problem with the internet technology is that there are umpteen ways to record music while it's streaming so, unless we only ever hear sample clips, the music is always going to be obtainable for free - somehow.

Exactly. Music is now free. Get over it and work out how else to fund investment. End of story. Bye bye majors. I hear Island let 4 go last week. The start of severe Universal pruning.

Excellent posts Emma - JK and R&B. Much more sense coming from the three of you than on any other music industry discussion that I have heard in the UK recently.

Despite the current gloom with thinking like that I predict music will survive in the UK and thrive in the next 10 years....albeit in a very different way.

It's been mentioned often over the past few years, but fan producer sites seem to be edging towards sustainability.

This guy raised €50k, apparently and has the backing of an impressive list of local radios
en.akamusic.com/mattbioul

These guys from London are 80% of the way to €15k
en.akamusic.com/boubou_thulium

Can't be bad, eh? Of course, recording it is one thing. Selling it is another. But when I look at the groups that reach their targets, they seem to be pretty well sussed, with gigs and grassroots promo to seed the work.

Michael wrote:
It's been mentioned often over the past few years, but fan producer sites seem to be edging towards sustainability.

This guy raised €50k, apparently and has the backing of an impressive list of local radios
en.akamusic.com/mattbioul

These guys from London are 80% of the way to €15k
en.akamusic.com/boubou_thulium

Can't be bad, eh? Of course, recording it is one thing. Selling it is another. But when I look at the groups that reach their targets, they seem to be pretty well sussed, with gigs and grassroots promo to seed the work.Many thanks for this information Michael, this is probably the single most important post on this board... to me at least.

I’m not familiar with AKA music but it looks good so I’ll be researching further. Do you have any more details?

Bobbie AKA Music wrote:
Michael wrote:
It's been mentioned often over the past few years, but fan producer sites seem to be edging towards sustainability.

This guy raised €50k, apparently and has the backing of an impressive list of local radios
en.akamusic.com/mattbioul

These guys from London are 80% of the way to €15k
en.akamusic.com/boubou_thulium

Can't be bad, eh? Of course, recording it is one thing. Selling it is another. But when I look at the groups that reach their targets, they seem to be pretty well sussed, with gigs and grassroots promo to seed the work.Many thanks for this information Michael, this is probably the single most important post on this board... to me at least.

I’m not familiar with AKA music but it looks good so I’ll be researching further. Do you have any more details?
Not much more than is on the site. I do occasionally come across artists that manage to reach their targets. It struck me that they are bands that know what they are doing. Raising funding is work, even on sites like this. The vast majority never reach their targets as they don't put the work in and often just don't have the songs. So - again - it shows the importance of building your fanbase and e-mail lists in addition to having the right "product". I notice that many of the acts already have videos too.

In short, there are few short cuts but at least in this case the bands are less reliant on labels for creating the album.